tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.comments2015-02-04T17:20:39.571-07:00Salt Lake Emergent CohortAndrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12494823779999456396noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-14676443071480699912008-08-31T21:23:00.000-06:002008-08-31T21:23:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Thomas Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04609562590483149878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-87456653341424293772008-08-28T15:27:00.000-06:002008-08-28T15:27:00.000-06:00Didymus,I do not know the scenario in which they w...Didymus,<BR/><BR/>I do not know the scenario in which they would not pray with a team. I will say that there are distinctions, for example would you pray with a Mormon or a Muslim? I do think people can take things too far, but again I do not know the parties involved nor the situation.<BR/><BR/>From a fundamental standpoint I do think it is hard for many to see some of the Emergent views as "Christian".... what I mean is this, they question not just orthodoxy but plain truths of the Bible for their own edification or dialogue. In a world where everyone wants to blur the lines, there are lines that must be drawn, God draws them and has since the beginning. <BR/><BR/>A story to illustrate, I went to a ecumenical dialogue at the University of Utah on the nature of hell. Here was the list of presenters<BR/><BR/>-An atheistic very Liberal Christian (? I know what???)<BR/>-A lesbian Rabbi<BR/>-A Priest that denied Original Sin<BR/>-A Muslim that was not sure if God was Allah<BR/>-A Secular Humanist <BR/><BR/>The only one that was consistent was the Humanist. How can a Muslim claim to be a Muslim if he is not sure Allah is Allah. I am not categorizing merely working off of definitions. <BR/><BR/>So what does it mean to be Christian? I think the Bible answers those questions.<BR/><BR/>Andrew-<BR/><BR/>Jesus wounded people.....lots of them, but he did it rightly.<BR/><BR/>Truth must be done in love and I agree many throw out that they are being loving while they SPIT truth like bile out of their mouths. I would agree that is not loving and I often need to check myself for I am a fallible man.<BR/><BR/>I want to tell you about the Sadducee though. You picked at the fundamentals and equated them to the Pharisees of old. But really you just joined a different group that is spoken of in the Bible. The Sadducee were the liberal Jews. They denied the basic tenants of the faith in exchange for experience, feeling and their position in life. The Emergents of today are the Sadducee, they question, dialogue and take a liberal wavering non stand on everything. And yet they do one thing so well they POINT their fingers at everyone who does love truth and call them Pharisees. <BR/><BR/>It is not just the Heresey Hunters we should look out for but Pharisee Hunters which is what you have become from reading your blog. You merely exchanged one for the other and Andrew you still wound people. It is just different people now.<BR/><BR/>Grace and Peace,<BR/>AndyAndyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15817382053501683260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-23801985163253737702008-08-07T12:39:00.000-06:002008-08-07T12:39:00.000-06:00Well said William. I used to be on the "team" who...Well said William. I used to be on the "team" who would not pray with others. I was a pretty good heresy hunter - but praise God I saw de' light. I shared that "conversion" story on my blog a while back, so I am going to paste it here cause I think it fits.<BR/><BR/> - "I have been a follower of Christ for about 24 years. My upbringing in the faith was within a church that was very focused on personal righteousness and drawing clear lines between, not only us and non-Christians, but also Christians who did not measure up. Due to years of bible quizzing, I had a lot of scripture at my command and did not hesitate to use it to point out the failings and shortcomings of others.<BR/><BR/>A friend of mind was heading off to a Christian college, as were a number of us, so we had a last get together. When he was leaving he shook my hand and held my gaze for a moment.<BR/><BR/>“Andy... You wound people”, he said.<BR/><BR/>“What?” I said defensively.<BR/><BR/>He smiled and left. There was no malice. He said it with complete compassion. He probably had wanted to say it for a long time.<BR/><BR/>It took years for what he said that night to sink in, but by the grace of God, it did. I have learned since then that Jesus didn’t just love people. He liked them. He really, really likes them.<BR/><BR/>I do not doubt my Christianity back then. I had been born-again. I had turned from a life of rebellion to a life of surrender. But like Paul said...without love, I was nothing but an irritation and pain to those around me. I was a modern day Pharisee. I was passionate for the things of God. But somehow, my contempt for non-Christians (and Christians who did not measure up) did not seem inconsistent to me. In fact, I used scripture to justify my attitude.<BR/><BR/>It is not enough to love God and be passionate for him. That was the mistake of the Pharisees. Over time you become jaundiced. Jesus said that loving your neighbor was like loving God. He was not willing to separate the two. They work in tandem. Jesus' love for people confounded the Pharisees. His love for people kept them from seeing who he really is.<BR/><BR/>A Pharisee is someone who loves God, but has contempt for people. I believe they are all over the church and I believe they are still God’s people. God just wants them to start over flowing with love for everyone like he does." -<BR/><BR/>I know that if a heresy hunter reads this he will say that he does love people - "he loves them with the truth!" I think that phrase, along with "hate the sin, love the sinner" have been responsible for more damage to the cause of Christ than anything else in our time. It allows us to shroud our anger, pride, sarcasm, and damaging tongue in something that sounds spiritual but in fact brings death.<BR/><BR/>Christians need to be life to everyone around them.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494823779999456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-17633339312503762482008-07-08T19:53:00.000-06:002008-07-08T19:53:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Thomas Rasmussenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04609562590483149878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-76732677707812614312008-07-08T09:45:00.000-06:002008-07-08T09:45:00.000-06:00Servant - I don't find your comment engaging. "I ...Servant - I don't find your comment engaging. "I find" many of those who oppose anything emergent tend to make a whole lot of assumptions.. drop into a blog and make comments similar to yours... and either disappear or want to take part in a theological fencing match. As one who is not considered either cool or relevant, I would encourage you to calm down and take the emergent chip off your shoulder.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494823779999456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-56013161433243860682008-07-08T09:34:00.000-06:002008-07-08T09:34:00.000-06:00Is scripture inerrant? Can the bible be true? Thes...Is scripture inerrant? Can the bible be true? These are questions you will be able to answer if you search the scriptures yourself. Spend time out in the deep of God's word. Don't linger in the shallows of the relavant and "cool." <BR/><BR/>I find this fault among many, with the emergent movement: Christians must live of the bread of life, the word of God.M. R. Burgoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06281360226653432132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-48189690904018387992008-06-17T17:03:00.000-06:002008-06-17T17:03:00.000-06:00That was Neil A MaxwellThat was Neil A MaxwellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-70489373968019766822008-06-17T17:02:00.000-06:002008-06-17T17:02:00.000-06:00Nice post Andy and nice walk. Thank you for your ...Nice post Andy and nice walk. Thank you for your friendship and example. I found this cool quote on hope that I thought you would like. Kory <BR/><BR/>"Without hope, what is the future of lubricating forgiveness among the human family? Without hope, why forgo now in order to preserve precious resources for future generations? Without hope, what will keep the remaining idealism from also souring into cynicism and thereby laying waste to governments and families-institutions already in such serious jeopardy?<BR/><BR/>"A coalition of consequences is emerging. As prophesied, the love of many waxes cold (see Matt. 24:12). Even those affectionately secure [in] themselves can sense the chill in the air. The loss of hope sends selfishness surging, as many turn, even more intensively, to pleasing themselves. The diminished sense of sin diminishes shame, that hot, sharp spur needed for repentance. Shame is often replaced by the arrogance of those morally adrift, including strutting celebrities whose outer boldness camouflages their inner emptiness. Henry David Thoreau correctly observed that "unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusement of mankind" (Walden, New York: Harper and Row, 1965, p. 7). No wonder so much hollow laughter emanates from the "lonely crowd." Brightness of Hope, Ensign, Nov 1994, p. 34Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-24215531220831968462008-05-13T22:15:00.000-06:002008-05-13T22:15:00.000-06:00Adam - I don't take your question as rude or conde...Adam - I don't take your question as rude or condescending at all. I would bet that we probably come at this in a similar fashion and would simply use terms differently.<BR/><BR/>I do believe God to be there and I believe him to be good. That makes sense to me. But I am also aware that many people are convinced of things that simply are not so, and I can't rule out the possibility that I am in that camp. <BR/><BR/>In addition, I buy into Paul's saying, "we know in part, and prophecy in part". I think amidst our knowing God, there is also a big part of Him that is unknowable. Add to that our point of view on the whole thing, and you end up with a fair amount of uncertainty.<BR/><BR/>I like what N.T. Wright said, "At any given time, a third of my theology is wrong... the problem is that I do not know which third it is."<BR/><BR/>All that to say, it is not that I do not have belief... I just find hope to be more realistic.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494823779999456396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-41773796731560501922008-05-13T16:59:00.000-06:002008-05-13T16:59:00.000-06:00I hope some things and believe some things, but I ...I hope some things and believe some things, but I also know some things. I have had communication from God that gives me knowledge he is there and he knows me and loves me.<BR/><BR/>Have none of your interactions with him given you enough "evidence" that he is there? (Not trying to be condescending or rude in asking.)<BR/><BR/>I recognize that sharing my "evidence" is impossible--I can only share my witness.Adam Fordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15834230366521015565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-53782832174471799332008-05-08T21:45:00.000-06:002008-05-08T21:45:00.000-06:00Excellent -- I remember reading that from you befo...Excellent -- I remember reading that from you before.Redleftyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04834798382800790723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-6406297740060373032008-05-08T20:51:00.000-06:002008-05-08T20:51:00.000-06:00Wow!!! I am lucky that as a child I was introduce...Wow!!! I am lucky that as a child I was introduced to a kind, forgiving, loving God and that is the one I hope in and long for...Carriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16059398861752323764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1038451133965473643.post-59035490052034926322008-05-08T17:35:00.000-06:002008-05-08T17:35:00.000-06:00Always love your comments! Keep it up and if need...Always love your comments! Keep it up and if needed I'll stay with you while we put you in the stretching machine to get you back to size!<BR/><BR/>ChadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com