Salt Lake Emergent Cohort

Meeting for April

2010-04-22T16:01:00.002-06:00

Meeting CANCELLED for April.

Meeting: Tuesday, March 23rd

2010-03-17T20:48:00.001-06:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together.

Meeting time: 7pm, Tuesday, March 23rd
At the usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Come share what books you've been reading, your favorite blog posts and articles that you've read this past month, or just come for the conversation.

Please RSVP if you plan to come.

A Movement or a Fad?

2010-02-05T18:50:00.001-07:00

Interesting article over on Out of Ur: A Movement or a Fad?

On Emergent Village:

When Tall Skinny Kiwi (TSK) announced he was dropping out of Emergent there was an strong reaction. I personally see no reason to take the “friend of Emergent” banner off my blog. I still have a lot of friends in that camp. People like Brian McLaren and Steve Knight have been good friends and have helped me personally. I see no reasons to announce a break. But Andrew Jones had some good reasons that I’m not sure I understand. What’s the fuss? Why are people fretting so much over Emergent Village staying together? Are these folk too invested? For all the wrong reasons?

If Emergent is a fad, a bunch of publisher induced hype, if its conversations never really affect a sustainable, tangible progress of God’s justice in the world, we will know soon enough. If on the other hand, the leaders of Emergent work on the ground in real life movements of God in Mission, its fruit will be undeniable. Perhaps this is what Tony Jones is doing? He’s leaving the label to do work on the ground? Perhaps not. I don’t know. But for now I see no reason to worry about him or Emergent, just encourage him and everyone in it towards faithfulness in mission by the Holy Spirit. Perhaps this is what TSK is getting at for himself when he expresses “the need for some of us to move on from the label and get on with the job.” If so bravo!

Meeting: Friday, January 29th

2010-01-21T17:10:00.001-07:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together... how about we make it next Friday:

Meeting time: 7pm, Friday, January 29th
At the usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Come share what books you've been reading, your favorite blog posts and articles that you've read this past month, or just come for the conversation.

Please RSVP if you plan to come.

Meeting: Friday, November 20th

2009-11-19T00:00:00.000-07:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together this Friday:

Meeting time: 7pm, Friday, November 20th
At the usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Come share what books you've been reading, your favorite blog posts and articles that you've read this past month, or just come for the conversation.

Meeting: Friday, October 23rd

2009-10-11T16:47:00.002-06:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together in a couple of weeks:

Meeting time: 7pm, Friday, October 23rd
At the usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Come share what books you've been reading, your favorite blog posts and articles that you've read this past month, or just come for the conversation.

Meeting: Friday, September 25th

2009-09-19T21:59:00.002-06:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together next week:

Meeting is at a different time: 7pm, Friday, September 25th
But it remains at the usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Come share what books you've been reading, your favorite blog posts and articles that you've read this past month, or just come for the conversation.

Sermon Event: Church in Utah: It's Time for a Revolution

2009-08-26T22:12:00.004-06:00

I just learned that John W. Morehead will be preaching at New Beginnings Church at Mountain Vista United Methodist (8931 South 3200 West, West Jordan) on Sunday, Sept. 6th at 4:00 p.m. Sermon title will be Church in Utah: It's Time for a Revolution. The Scripture reference is Matthew 16:1-3. The main points of the message to be followed by a Q&A are:

1. We are living in a new world of challenge and opportunity for the church.
2. The challenges of late modernity, post-Christendom, and Utah culture.
3. The church in Christendom culture.
4. Church in the missional mode.
5. A concluding challenge with the need to cast a vision with strategy for missional church in Utah.

This looks to be an interesting conversation about church planting and missional church in Utah. Please spread the word.

The Life of Apostle Paul with Rick Steves

2009-08-22T21:51:00.002-06:00

I love watching Rick Steves travel shows on PBS. Here is his show done on the Apostle Paul for the ELCA, of which he is a member. Enjoy.

We are now getting a Catholic radio station in Utah

2009-08-22T12:01:00.004-06:00

I noticed in the paper today that we are getting a Catholic radio station. (From the Deseret News)

Catholic radio station to hold launch party

Utah's first Catholic radio station will have a "Station Launch Party" today, 9:30-10 a.m., at the KIHU (AM-1010) radio tower, 6173 W. 2100 South, West Valley City.

The Most Rev. John C. Wester, bishop of the Diocese of Salt Lake City, will bless the station and do a ceremonial flip of the switch to being full-time Catholic broadcasting to Utah.

The station will be part of the Immaculate Heart Radio Network.

The Salt Lake Tribune also had an article that mentioned that a locally produced program may soon be coming.

Eventually, the Salt Lake City Diocese will air an hourlong program five to seven days a week, said Colleen Gudreau, communications director for the diocese.

Wester appointed a steering committee this summer to suggest programs for what is tentatively being called "Utah Catholic Now." A start date has not yet been set for that program, Gudreau said.

"It's got a lot of potential, but it takes a lot of planning to actually make it happen," Gudreau said. "It certainly is historic to have Catholic radio in Utah. It will increase the communication of what is happening in the diocese with Catholics and others interested in what is going on."

That sounds like it will be interesting, especially if it takes on the social issue of immigration.

Event Announcement: Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson visits Utah

2009-08-14T17:43:00.004-06:00

The Latino Ministry of the Episcopal Diocese of Utah is honored to host Bishop Gene Robinson on Thursday, August 20, 2009 at the ECCU. Bishop Robinson’s address to the Episcopal Diocese of Utah will begin at 4:00 p.m. The theme of his address will be: “The Episcopal Church in the Twenty-First Century.” There will be a book signing and small reception following his address. Please RSVP to Karen Pena (801-322-4131) by Monday, August 17.

If you’re wondering what that strange writing means in our banner

2009-08-04T20:00:00.003-06:00

I felt like spiffing up our site banner a little. Make it unique and a little more Utahish. So I downloaded Mormon Country’s very own Deseret Alphabet and wrote ‘Salt Lake Emergent Cohort’ in Deseret. It’s a phonetic alphabet, so I had to do a little homework to get the characters right, but I don’t think there are any hard and fast rules for the correct spelling of many words, so this is my best impression of things.

The font I used is designed after the one used in the Deseret First Book, published back in 1868. If you’d like to play around with the font for yourself, here’s the ReaderBee font for download.

Next Meeting: August 26th, we’ll be discussing The Great Emergence

2009-07-28T21:35:00.004-06:00

News about our upcoming get together:

The usual time: 7pm, August 26th
The usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

We decided to discuss as a group the book The Great Emergence, by Phyllis Tickle, so you’ll want to get it and read it before the meeting. Last I looked it appears to be available in most Barnes & Nobles and Border’s Books in the Salt Lake Valley.

Here are some additional resources you may want to check out: Here are some videos related to the book and a study guide available to download. Also you might want to check out some of the other videos available online of Phyllis Tickle discussing The Great Emergence.

Meeting: This Wednesday, July 22nd

2009-07-19T19:13:00.005-06:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together this week:

The usual time: 7pm, July 22nd
The usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Maybe we can read and discuss some of the faith jarring stories found in Peter Rollins new book The Orthodox Heretic.

And we might also discuss the current wallet jarring economic crisis and it's "theology". Here are a few articles worth checking out:

Praying for a revolution in economics, guardian.co.uk

Is the Economic Crisis a Sin?, Newsweek

The Market as God, by Harvey Cox

Vaticanomics: The Holy Father Tackles Globalization, The Wall Street Journal

The Episcopal General Convention and Utah

2009-07-18T08:22:00.003-06:00

From today's Salt Lake Tribune there's a brief article on some of Utah's roll in the recent General Convention in Anaheim, CA.

Utah's Episcopal representatives joined the majority at this week's Episcopal General Convention in backing a measure to allow individual dioceses the option of choosing a gay or lesbian bishop.

"We want everything in our church to be open to all people," Bishop Carolyn Tanner Irish said in a phone interview from Anaheim, ... "Our diocese has always been progressive on social issues, mainly because the state is so conservative."

Hmm.... Since our Bishop is retiring here soon, I wonder if this decision will play any roll in the Bishop selection process now going on?

Happy Birthday, John Calvin!

2009-07-10T08:27:00.005-06:00

It's a happy 500th today for theologian John Calvin, a whole half a millennium old. Check out some of the souvenir idols they've made of him for the celebrations this year (above), and a bobblehead (below). I wonder if John Calvin would approve. Hmmm.

Man, I need to find a way to collect these kinds of trinkets, maybe ebay or something. I need this kind of comedy classic junk for show and tell.

Here's some more to get into the spirit of things here.

Our Salt Lake Emergent Cohort is now on Goodreads

2009-07-08T12:44:00.002-06:00

I started a group on Goodreads for us to maybe have another avenue to network with other like minded readers and to see what each others is reading, what we hope to read, book recommendations, etc. So sign on up and check it out.

Review: The Great Emergence, by Phyllis Tickle

2009-07-07T10:26:00.001-06:00

The Great Emergence: How Christianity is Changing and Why by Phyllis Tickle

My review

rating: 4 of 5 stars
The first part of the book about Christianity having a reformation every 500 years or so is a bit contrived. I don't think history really shows that pattern. But her thoughts on what is happening right now, that we are going through a kind of new Reformation, as she calls it 'The Great Emergence', I think she makes some really good points here. A book worth meditating on.

View all my reviews.

Last night’s interfaith lament over SB81

2009-07-01T10:35:00.006-06:00

SB81 goes into effect today. Here is some of the press coverage on last night’s interfaith service/lament. The Salt Lake Tribune had an article, and KSL had a report (video below). Representatives from the Lutheran, Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Episcopal churches spoke at the service. Also, Aaron Petterborg of the new Missionaries for Compassion toward Immigrants (Salt Lake Tribune article, facebook and web) showed up, it was good to finally meet him.

Video Courtesy of KSL.com

Utah faith leaders unite to lament SB81

2009-06-29T20:56:00.003-06:00

There will be an interfaith service:
When: Tuesday, June 30th, at 7:30 p.m.
Where: Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church, 1070 S. Foothill Drive
More information: 801-582-2321

I plan to go.

Comment from Pastor Steve Klemz's press release:

A Service of Lament
On the eve of the implementation of SB81, Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church hosts an interfaith service of lament. SB81, an omnibus anti-immigration bill, is symptomatic of a broken community and serves as a call to prayer among people of faith. Public lament is a way people of faith confess their trust in God above all else, especially as this bill further creates a climate of fear and diminish the fullness of life in Utah.

Here's the article from the Salt Lake Tribune:

Utah faith leaders unite to lament SB81
By Peggy Fletcher Stack

The Rev. Steve Klemz felt an overwhelming sadness at the passage of Utah's new immigration law, SB81, due to take effect Wednesday.

He mourned for all Utahns who live in the shadows, he said, without documents for themselves or a loved one. He agonized for those whose families will be severed by the law.

Klemz, pastor of Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church in Salt Lake City, sought solace in his faith, where he found numerous biblical passages that lament the world's injustice.

He then organized an interfaith service, scheduled for the eve before the bill is implemented, where people from every faith can read passages from the Psalms and other Bible verses. Catholic, Episcopal and Muslim leaders already have accepted his invitation.

"The bill is symptomatic of a broken community and serves as a call to prayer among people of faith," he said. "Public lament is a way people of faith confess their trust in God above all else, especially as this bill further creates a climate of fear and diminishes the fullness of life in Utah."

For Klemz, immigration is a moral issue -- and a personal one.

In 2002, he married Norma Gonzalez, who had come to the United States from Mexico to care for her ailing father and stayed -- without permission.

He joined her in the bureaucratic black hole that was her effort to become a legal resident. The couple prepared a petition to the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, now part of Homeland Security. The federal government wanted to know if theirs was a marriage of convenience or a real union. They assembled scores of photos showing their family life and hundreds of letters from friends attesting to the genuineness of their marriage.

Finally, last November, supporters filled the immigration courtroom as the couple faced their future.

"They put us on administrative hold and encouraged us to go to Juarez [Mexico] and get Norma a visa," Klemz said, "but they are not actively pursuing us."

Though not conclusive, it was a relief.

"You have no idea how good it feels not to have a court date hanging over our heads as we did for five years," he said. "Now we are basically waiting and praying for immigration reform."

pstack@sltrib.com

It's the feast day for Sts. Peter and Paul

2009-06-29T20:26:00.003-06:00

A couple of interesting things. Did you hear that the Vatican may have exhumed the bones of the actual St. Paul. That would be kind of cool... if it's true. You can read a little more about it here, here, and here.

And here's an interesting thought I found surfing today: "Peter and Paul were of course not always the best of friends (at least from Paul’s perspective!). But celebrating them together is important: in many ways, they are the Catholic apostle and the Protestant apostle. (Ecumenical) hope springs eternal." (From Cross Talk)

Meeting: This Wednesday, June 24th

2009-06-22T09:31:00.003-06:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together this week:

The usual time: 7pm, June 24th
The usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

I thought we might be able to discuss the idea of pilgrimage. I’ve been seeing the topic all over the place lately, and going on one seems to be making a comeback… even in evangelical circles. Here’s is an article in the recent Christianity Today on the topic, He Talked to Us on the Road; more information and articles here. Religion & Ethics Newsweekly had a spot on young conservative Catholics revitalizing the ancient practice, Pilgrimage to Chartres (video and transcript). And not all pilgrimages are ancient, here’s one being made with more post-modern views in mind, The Abraham Path (lots of interesting things to see here).

In the Salt Lake Tribune - Transitions: The Mormon Migration from Religion to Relationship

2009-06-13T08:35:00.004-06:00

What looks to be an interesting new program is mentioned in a Salt Lake Tribune article this morning, produced by WIIS (who appear to be inheriting the legacy of the now defunct Salt Lake Theological Seminary).

I commented on the article:

I just finished watching their 14-minute infomercial. This looks to be a good program. The fact is there are a lot of people immigrating out of Mormonism and this looks like it will be good resource to help them adjust to the transition, and with a lot less of the bitterness that generally goes along with that transition.

And I noted that this film isn't so much about trying to convert Mormons to Evangelicalism, but rather trying to help those already moving out of Mormonism (for whatever of various reasons) to adjust to their new Christian setting, if that is the route they choose. The makers of this film are taking advantage of a fact that has recently been given some press lately and that is that many people do not stay with the same religion, or religious institutions, they grew up with; Catholics are becoming Protestant, Evangelicals are joining the Catholic or Orthodox Churches, some Christians are converting to Islam, and Mormons are also a part of this fluidity in our culture. I myself have been a part of this journey, having been raised a Mormon I am now an Episcopalian.

Here's the infomercial:

Just wanted to encourage you all - St Barnabas' tomb in Cyprus

2009-06-11T00:09:00.003-06:00

Since it’s the feast day of St Barnabas (June 11th) I thought I’d post the one relic I have of his. This is a picture of me at his tomb (purported) in Cyprus, back in 1998, when I was working to plant a church in Nicosia. Wow! That was over ten years ago. I’ll have to scan the very few pictures I have of my time out there and post them somewhere one of these days.

Meeting: May 27th

2009-05-24T15:25:00.006-06:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together this week:

The usual time: 7pm, May 27th
The usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Come share and discuss what books you've been reading and some of your favorite blog posts, and/or articles, you've read this past month.

And for all the Calvinists we love, here's some...

(found in my reader at Glocal Christianity)

The American Patriot’s Bible

2009-05-11T21:51:00.005-06:00

Well, they’ve finally did it! Patriotic cheese! They’ve released a niche market Bible for the Religious Right, The American Patriot’s Bible (the comments on Amazon make for some interesting reading).

Here’s the cover blurb:

THE ONE BIBLE THAT SHOWS HOW 'A LIGHT FROM ABOVE' SHAPED OUR NATION. Never has a version of the Bible targeted the spiritual needs of those who love our country more than The American Patriot's Bible. This extremely unique Bible shows how the history of the United States connects the people and events of the Bible to our lives in a modern world. The story of the United States is wonderfully woven into the teachings of the Bible and includes a beautiful full-color family record section, memorable images from our nation's history and hundreds of enlightening articles which complement the New King James Version Bible text.

I’m looking forward to reviewing some of the articles and other features at a local bookstore (I bet Lifeway has a copy). I wonder if they’ll have anything in there on how American politicians and pastors often manipulate the Bible for less than savory political purposes, and how the Bible has been used to justify quite a few nasty little things in our history. But I doubt it.

Check out Greg Boyd's review on Out of Ur (Part 1) (Part 2)

Check out the infomercial.

The more church, the more torture

2009-04-30T23:35:00.003-06:00

This was a little shocking to read. A survey was recently done which found that “the more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists”. That's got to make you think... I wonder what Jesus thinks of that? I mean considering since he was tortured and all, and in spite of that, told us to "love our enemies", "turn the other cheek", etc.

One thing the survey found that I appreciated: “The religious group most likely to say torture is never justified was Protestant denominations -- such as Episcopalians, [...] -- categorized as "mainline" Protestants, in contrast to evangelicals.” Yet another good reason to be Episcopalian.

Theology in the Letters to the Editor

2009-04-24T10:27:00.002-06:00

Here are polar opposite Letters to the Editor from today’s papers for your meditation. First from the Salt Lake Tribune:

I don't begrudge The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for asking $2 million for a condo in its rising City Creek Center ("Million dollar view," Tribune , April 16). Why should it, out of human kindness, price it for less, when the buyer can turn around and resell it for a lot more?

City Creek Center is an expensive urban project, and to make it financially successful the LDS Church should get what the market will bear. After all, the project is a hard-headed business investment as well as generous act to revive downtown Salt Lake. And who can fault the church for not wanting its world headquarters to be surrounded by urban decay?

While I don't fault the church for its business acumen, let's be clear: Jesus would not live in a $2 million condo, and he would condemn those who do. "Give me the simple, communitarian life," was the song he sang and lived. Being a true Christian requires more than proudly increasing the point size of "Jesus Christ" in a logo.

Anthony Edward Samuel
Salt Lake City

And now one from the Deseret News:

I saw the signs in London saying "Down with Capitalism." I also read where the majority of Europe is now atheist.

I suggest something like a prisoner swap. We ship all of our atheists and socialists to Europe in exchange for their Christians and capitalists. I know we may have to do a two for one, but I'm willing to bet on which country would be the greatest place to live now or 10 years from now.

Mark Arrington
Heber City

So… what’d ya think?

Meeting: April 22nd

2009-04-19T14:33:00.003-06:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together this week:

The usual time: 7pm, April 22nd
The usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Come share and discuss what books you've been reading and some of your favorite blog posts, and/or articles, you've read this past month.

Christ crucified electrocuted

2009-04-16T09:07:00.003-06:00

A sculpture of Christ in an electric chair by artist Paul Fryer, titled Pietà, is generating a lot of discussion in France ever since it was propped up in the cathedral of Gap by its bishop.

From The Mirror:

The life-like sculpture depicting Christ sitting in an electric chair was displayed in the city's cathedral at the suggestion of the bishop of Gap, Jean-Michel di Falco.

He defended the choice saying: "The scandal is not where one believes it to be.

"I wanted the provoked shock to make us once again conscious of the scandal of someone being nailed to a cross.

"Usually, one does not feel any real emotions in front of something really scandalous: the Crucifixion.

"If Jesus had been sentenced today, he would have to reckon with the electric chair or other barbaric methods of execution. Scandalous is therefore not Jesus in the electric chair, but the indifference to his crucifixion."

The Bishop makes a very good point here, the real scandal is not in the artwork, but in the indifference to his crucifixion.

More on Bitemybible and Arcadja.

“Tea Party” protesters and theology

2009-04-15T15:31:00.002-06:00

I’ve been skimming some of the pictures of these tax day “tea party” protest things, and the single most striking thing about the pictures I saw was that the protesters are not at all ethnically diverse; they appear to be mostly just a crowd of ticked off white people.

Here’s one comical picture I liked:

I love that sign:

Clinging to
My God!
My Money!
My Guns!

You just have to wonder what kind of theology that person has.

Christians in Orissa and Ashok Sahu

2009-04-13T21:57:00.005-06:00

I just saw this BBC report on the ongoing persecution of the Christians in Orissa, India. The visuals bring it closer to home for me what is going on there, but what interested me more was that the reporter takes us to briefly meet face-to-face one of the leaders of the persecution. Like the religious leaders we read of in Acts, who stoned Stephen to death, like the ones who imprisoned the Apostle Paul and beat him to a pulp, like the Pharisees who had Jesus crucified, here is one of those men, his name is Ashok Sahu. What do you think of him? Do you detest him, or do you love him?

A related article quotes him,

"I don't justify violence, but there are two types of violence," he explains. "One is planned violence and the other is spontaneous violence."

"A maximum number of Christians were killed, yes it is a fact, but why? The Hindu sense of dignity has come to the surface in a spontaneous manner and they want to protect that sense of dignity."

The article mentions that Ashok Sahu “is now facing charges for inciting hatred against Christians in one of his campaign speeches.” This reminds me of someone else I’ve read about, one who held other peoples coats while they picked up rocks to stone another, and then went on a campaign to “spontaneously” root out Christians. He should be more careful how he goes about his business, a blinding light might catch him unawares on one of those dusty roads out there, and who knows... in a couple years he may just be India’s best-known apostle of the cross.

Here’s to hoping. :)

A couple of Easter thoughts

2009-04-11T22:03:00.001-06:00

From the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams:

From Real Live Preacher:

Newsweek & Speaking of Faith

2009-04-11T20:47:00.002-06:00

I thought I'd share a couple of things I've read and listened to this past week that I think are worth passing along. First, Newsweek had a cover story on The End of Christian America. Next, American Public Media's radio program, Speaking of Faith, posted an interesting interview with Armenian Orthodox Theologian Vigen Guroian (with some additional resources as well).

Finally, just an off topic side note I thought I’d share. I just got back from picking up some milk at Smith’s and you’ll never guess who I saw there – “SuperDell” Schanze, you remember him, he’s the guy who makes Glenn Beck look normal. Yup, I just saw him down at my local Smith’s. I wonder what he was doing grocery shopping at my local Smith’s? … … Noooooooooo!!!

I think Richard Rohr may become my new favorite author

2009-04-08T19:34:00.001-06:00

Richard Rohr was one of the speakers at the Emergent Church conference in Albuquerque last month. He is a Franciscan priest and his organization, the Center for Action and Contemplation, hosted the event. Although I had not read his books or heard him speak before; I left the conference determined to get some of his books in my collection.

I have been listening to some of his audio on the web, and I was really drawn to this quote by him:

"Judgment is not, by and large, a search for Truth. It is certainly not a path toward Love. What it is, is a search for control - a way that the Ego positions itself as better, righter, above, correct, in charge, in control. Once you see that... judgment starts losing its fascination. My great disappointment in so much of institutional religion is that it actually trains us to be judgmental".

Where does the authority come from?

2009-04-05T20:30:00.001-06:00

This was a question that was repeated many times throughout the Emergent conference in Albuquerque a few weekends ago. It was the central question of a talk given by Phyllis Tickle as she shared ideas from her book The Great Emergence. Her basic premise was that every 500 years or so, the church (universal) goes through a rummage sale of sorts because the institutions of Christianity become overly bogged down with themselves. Then "reformations" happen, when everything goes on the table, and the church must look again at where its authority comes from.

Everyone had thoughts on this throughout the weekend and it was interesting to hear the different perspectives. Most agreed that Luther's assertion of Sola Scriptura had the unintended consequence of forming a myriad of schisms... as different groups took away different priorities and interpretations from said scripture.

The central problem with schisms, according to Brian McLaren, were not the schisms themselves; but rather that each schism tried de-legitimatize every group above it (or below it).

The question of authority still remains, but here is my take on it. Any authority other than yourself is always going to be problematic. The minute you start relying on statements like "What my church teaches is...." then you have outsourced your discernment to someone else. You have removed yourself from accountability (or at least tried to). That is why, I believe, Peter set a standard of a priesthood of ALL believers. Hebrews concurs "in the past, God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets... but in these last days, He has spoken to us by his Son."

In the end, I will stand before God to give an account (Hebrews 4:13). I think the awareness of personal accountability is what is causing house churches and spiritual communities to catch on more. For many Christians, the days of being dependent on a Pastor are growing old. I think there will always be a need for an administrative authority in churches, but the assumption of spiritual authority has developed a generation who's discernment has atrophied. They didn't need it.... the pastor/bishop/priest told them what to think. That era, I believe, is coming to a close. I may harness my carriage to a teacher like McLaren or Claiborne at times, but I will always hold the reigns.

I think the upcoming generation will differ in that, rather than trying to de-legitimatize the paths of others, we will be looking to garner something from their view of life, scripture, and God. We will not feel the need to abandon the traditions we grew up in (though we will have the freedom to do so), rather we can view them as a sanctuary, but no longer the destination.

Emergent Church Conference

2009-03-21T11:10:00.000-06:00

I am down in Albuquerque at the Emergent conference. I am doing this from my phone.... which is tedious. The speakers are challenging and the conversation at my table has been enlightening. I hope this becomes an annual event.

Meeting: March 25th

2009-03-20T10:06:00.004-06:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together next week:

The usual time: 7pm, March 25th
The usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Andrew will be fresh back from the emergent conference in Albuquerque that started today. I'm sure he will have a lot to share with us.

Also, there has been a lot of discussion going around the blogosphere as of late as to where things are going with the church. There were so many different articles posted, but here are a few good places to start: the immanent collapse of evangelicalism (imonk, Jesus Creed); the rise of New Calvinists, at least according to Time magazine's 10 Ideas Changing the World Right Now; a call for a "theology of church extinction" as the church collapses in some regions, even as it rises in others (also see NYT's article Leaving Iraq: An Iraqi Christian); and thinking of the church rising, just what kind of church is rising in Africa today (some things to consider here and here); and then there is Phyllis Tickle’s The Great Emergence. Maybe we can spend a little time discussing where you think things are going.

Meeting: February 25th

2009-02-21T20:37:00.002-07:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together next week:

The usual time: 7pm, February 25th
The usual place: High Point Coffee, 1735 W 7800 S, West Jordan

Check this video of Brian McLaren's presentation, The Episcopal Moment, on faith-sharing and evangelism to the annual convention of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington on Saturday, January 31, 2009. (Streaming video in Windows Media Player, just click on the link for the video. Note audio has some complications during the first 15 minutes or so, but it's fine after that.)

Really! It's worth your time.

Movie: Fireproof

2009-02-17T21:46:00.002-07:00

I finally saw the “Christian” romance film Fireproof this last weekend for Valentines Day. My wife liked it… so did everyone else I saw it with at the little Valentines Day social that our local church put on (at least as far as I could tell). People were talking about buying it, that it was such a great film.

Me? Well… I watched the whole thing. But it seemed to me to be more-or-less just a Harlequin romance with an alter call, and a serious ideological bent. What I mean is this – there are several marriages either portrayed or mentioned in the film: there is the main character Kirk Cameron’s marriage, which is on the rocks, and heading for divorce, until he accepts Jesus; there is his parent’s marriage, which was on the rocks at one time, but then they accepted Jesus, and all is bliss; there are the two marriages of Kirk Cameron’s co-worker at the fire station, for the first one, he hadn’t accepted Jesus in time so it ended in divorce, the second was after he accepted Jesus, and was evidently blissful; finally, there is the doctor, who takes a romantic interest in Kirk Cameron’s wife, and who hides his wedding ring in his desk, obviously doesn’t have Jesus, and his marriage is heading for ruin. The message in the film is clear, if you accept Jesus your marriage will be bliss, if you don’t accept Jesus your marriage is destined for ruin and divorce.

The thing is actual life isn’t quite as idealistic as this film portrays. All marriages have problems. We’re all people, we’re all sinners, and we all make mistakes. But I’ve seen married couples who’ve not “accepted Jesus” that are doing just fine, moving right along with its bumps and occasional potholes, but far from ruin and divorce. More importantly though, I have also seen many couples throughout the years, who have “accepted Jesus” much like the film portrays, and whose marriages have not gone so well. Divorce still happens. And when real life doesn’t match the idealization that is promised, people lose faith.

But the thing that gets me about the film, it’s not just that we have imperfect married people, who still continue to sin, even after they have accepted Jesus, and they have to continually repent and overcome the effects of that sin that prevent it from being truly bliss. No, that’s not it. It’s that God doesn’t anywhere promise that your marriage will be bliss if you follow Jesus in the first place.

The film tries to say that if you do things Jesus’ way, if you follow the rules, and stick with it (kind of like the 40-day self-help challenge that Kirk Cameron’s father gives him), and this goes beyond just marriage, that things are going to be great, you are going to be blest. Now go read about Job and his three friends. Yup, that’s the same general message Job’s three friends gave him that God scolded them on at the end of the book. Now go read about Hosea, and how his biblically arranged marriage to that harlot went. Yup, I’d say the message this film is trying to say is the wrong message. God isn’t about the business of blessing your marriage just because you accepted Jesus. No, he has an altogether different idea in mind.

But besides all that… I guess I could say the film was kinda cute. My wife liked it. And the points in the self-help challenge are good advice. I think I’ll do them.

Mormergent

2009-02-14T10:14:00.002-07:00

Rick, over on his blog Cheaper Than Therapy, takes a humorous look at the ever increasing number of hyphen-mergent groups popping up all the time, like Presbymergent, baptimergent, anglimergent (which I joined), more recently inclusivEmergent, and even queermergent. And he speculates on some others that may soon come along. This one I noted with a good laugh:

Mormergent
Were the teachings of Jospeh Smith meant to be taken literally? Was Moroni a literal angel or a guy in the woods? Should Mormons return to their ancient faith, but with more black people? Should their missionaries dress snazzier and what does Tony Jones have to say when he comes to BYU?

I look forward to the day! …but thinking about it… we may already have that here… it’s been around for a while, and goes by a different name, called Sunstone.

Happy Darwin Day!

2009-02-12T18:36:00.006-07:00

Evolution is finally beginning to take hold in the churches, and Creationists are diminishing through the process of natural selection, or should I say de-selection in their case. Over the past few days its been good to see more church recognition of Charles Darwin’s achievements in science, and less talk of him “as some kind of anti-theologian”.

Happy 200th for Charles Darwin!
Video and article from Telegraph.co.uk
A site on Darwin by the Church of England
And from NPR: Darwin Finds Some Followers In The Pulpits

And Happy 150th for On the Origin of Species, by Charles Darwin!
Selections at the New York Times

NT Wright: What Is Hell Like? Does It Even Exist?

2009-02-06T14:42:00.002-07:00

I'm with NT Wright on this topic, I don't know how many others of you are. What are your thoughts?

[HT: glocal christianity, also there are more videos in the series available from 100 Huntley Street on YouTube here.]

Learning from our faith's mistakes

2009-02-04T20:22:00.005-07:00

In an article posted in USA Today, Stephen Prothero makes a point that got me thinking and that I'd like to highlight:

When I was a professor at Georgia State University in Atlanta, I required my students to read Nazi theology. I wanted them to understand how some Christians bent the words of the Bible into weapons aimed at Jews, and how those weapons found their mark in the concentration camps. My Christian students responded to these disturbing readings with one disturbing voice. The Nazis were not Christians, they said. Jesus was, after all, a Jew. This response was in many respects laudable. But in distancing their religion from the history of the Holocaust, my students absolved themselves of any responsibility for reckoning with how their religious tradition might have contributed to these horrors.

I think we do this with much of Christian history, not just the Nazi Holocaust. We hide the parts we disagree with, clean out the dark spots, and say to ourselves, "they weren't really Christians". We see only the "good" side of our faith, but not the "bad", and we don't really learn from our faith's mistakes.

Prothero mentioned to me that it was the book Theologians Under Hitler: Gerhard Kittel, Paul Althaus and Emanuel Hirsch, by Robert P. Ericksen, that he assigned to his students.

Some things for Sunday, January 25th

2009-01-24T10:02:00.004-07:00

There are a couple of events going on tomorrow that some of you maybe interested in. I haven't decided which one, or even if, I'll go to. Let me know if any of you are interested and that may help me decide.

Most information came from the Deseret News and the Salt Lake Tribune:

Aquinas lecture on Christians, Muslims

Sr. Marianne Farina, professor at the Dominican School of Philosophy and Theology, Berkeley, Calif,, will deliver the Annual Aquinas Lecture on "Is There Common ground for dialogue and interaction between Christians and Muslims?" at 2 p.m. Sunday at St. Catherine of Siena Newman Center, 170 S. University St.

Farina's lecture, titled "Christian-Muslim Relations: A Peaceable Excellence," will address such questions as whether Christians and Muslims can find common ground for dialog and the extent to which they can work together on peace.

She will frame her answers around the tradition of social doctrine of the Catholic Church as well as Islamic scriptures' principles of the moral life, the news release said.

Farina also will compare theological writings of St. Thomas Aquinas and Abu Hamid Muhammad al-Ghazali.

The Aquinas Lecture is free and open to the public.

Rev. Irish to speak at library in S.L.

The Rev. Carolyn Tanner Irish, Tenth Bishop of Utah, Episcopal Diocese of Utah, will speak at 2 p.m. Sunday as part of the 2008-09 "Religion, Culture and Nature" portion of the "Forum for Questioning Minds" series at the Salt Lake City Main Library Auditorium, 210 E. 400 South.

This lecture is free and open to the public.

Her presentation on Religion, Culture, and Nature will begin with some thoughts on the importance of 'questioning minds' to distinguish various elements of religion such as church, faith, and spirituality. In the same spirit of questioning, we'll also consider cultural elements such as politics and economics. We'll then reflect on how all these factors come together in the environmental concerns we face.

Meeting: January 28th

2009-01-21T20:01:00.005-07:00

This is a reminder about our upcoming get together next week:

The usual time: 7pm, January 28th
The usual location: High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan

I thought we might discuss a couple of things. First, since Bill has started going to seminary, we could talk about that. I think at least half of us have at one time or another thought about, or seriously considered, going to seminary or something like it.

Then there is the man of the hour, our new president, Obama. We can ask ourselves – What does Obama mean? What does he mean for Christianity in America, and in the world today?

I’ve been reading all sorts of things over the past couple of days that span the entire spectrum, from apocalyptic disaster, to messianic, and a lot in between. One of my conservative Christian facebook friends, who is from what I guess could be called the ‘show no mercy, compromise nothing’ crowd, was posting periodically throughout inauguration day that he…

...is sad to witness this horrific day in U.S. history as B. Hussein Obama who's a friend of terrorists and a baby-killer is unconstitutionally inaugurated! Sad!

...is watching with horror the beginning of communism in the U.S. and the nation's rapid downfall - the nightmare has begun.

...is looking at the continuation of the devastating Obama Crash in the stock market which has already erased trillions of dollars in wealth.

I most certainly DO NOT respect B. Hussein Obama for anything as his character, words and actions are Anti-God, Anti-American, Anti-Life and Anti-anything we Christians stand for and against the foundations this country (the USA) was founded on. But as we pray for Obama that he may accept the Lord Jesus Christ as His personal Savior which would be phenomenal, we must also understand and recognize that we will never ever respect a man, a group or an organization who has made a conscious decision to promote and legislate policies to destroy the people of God, to destroy innocent life, to destroy God's economic system, and who stands behind anything that's against God. Otherwise, we would need to respect Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin, Stalin, Chavez, Castro, Saddam Hussein and every other evil vessel who yielded by their free will to the workings of Satan.

You have to blink in astonishment when you read this stuff. Andy over at our local HFTL was kind enough to post the new Christian music video that I guess is making the rounds that expresses a similar point of view, announcing that we as a nation have all committed – Obamacide!

And one really wacky “Christian” guy I found, who I think has completely lost it, stated on his blog that “I AM NOT praying for Obama to be blessed by God. I hope he dies quickly & another takes the office of the Presidency.”

Other voices, from a more “open minded” Christian Right, such as Jay Sekulow, of the American Center for Law and Justice, seems to be advocating things, now that Obama is president, that aren’t too dissimilar from what the Matthew 25 Network was advocating before the election, about reducing the number of abortions, rather than just hopelessly continue to pursue an outright ban. [Listen to NPR’s Talk of the Nation: What's Next For The Anti-Abortion Movement?]

On the other side of the spectrum we have folks with so much hope in Obama that Rev. Gene Robinson, first openly gay bishop in the Episcopal Church, felt compelled to at least mention in his prayer the other day, “Bless us with patience… and the understanding that our new president is a human being, not a messiah.”

And then in the midst of all this I find voices like this, which when you think about it, you’ll realize that this is something new. (HT: Burnside Writer's Blog)

So... What does Obama mean? What does he mean for Christianity in America, and in the world today?

Antony of Egypt Art Appreciation Day

2009-01-17T12:16:00.005-07:00

It’s his feast day today, so I picked up my copy of Athanasius’s The Life of Antony to read up on him (Wikipedia bio). A short book, and well worth reading, of the saint battling the demons in a tomb and out in the desert, overcoming their attempts to break him through his discipline and faith in Christ. But I thought I’d surf the net for some other resources on him that might be interesting, and found some things I had not expected – some classic works of art that I’ve seen several times before but have never fully appreciated.

First, there is Hieronymus Bosch's triptych painting The Temptation of St. Anthony. Hieronymus Bosch’s artwork has always fascinated me, I used to spend time just looking through books in the library that showed all the weird details, but I never made the connection between this painting and the story of Antony. (I can’t post the painting here without dismembering it considerably so you’ll have to follow the link above for an image.)

Then there is The Temptation of St. Anthony, by Salvador Dalí. Now I’ve never really appreciated much the stuff by Salvador Dalí, I’ve always kind of found it a little too tripped out for me, but with now reading Athanasius’s book on Antony this painting has taken on a new meaning, and I think in many ways it captures the feeling of what I'm reading.

So, since it is Antony’s feast day, I think I’ll spend some time feasting and meditating on these paintings in relation to what I've been read from Athanasius. And I think I’ll try to find more detailed pictures of the paintings. Have fun viewing.

Comic: Jumpstart tells the truth

2009-01-04T21:18:00.005-07:00

From: Yahoo Comics

Catholic-Emergent Conference

2008-12-28T21:08:00.004-07:00

We have spoken about this before at our get together, but it is time to spread the word out more widely. There is a group rate available if we can get a group of ten put together. Those interested in possibly going to this conference post a comment below and let us know.

The Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) in Albuquerque, New Mexico, will be hosting the first-ever Catholic-Emergent conference, March 20-22, 2009.

According to the CAC, “The conversation about the emerging church has been attracting a broad array of Christians — progressive Evangelicals and mainline Protestants along with some Roman Catholics — but this will be the first gathering to be planned and hosted by a team of Catholic and Protestant leaders working together for the good of the church at large. There will also be a post-conference for those who want to develop vehicles for deepening and sustaining the emerging energy for Gospel-centered justice, contemplation, and community.”

The conference will feature:

Richard Rohr, OFM (founding director of CAC)
Brian McLaren
Alexie Torres-Fleming
Shane Claiborne
Phyllis Tickle

The conference is being called “The Emerging Church: Conversations, Convergence and Action,” and the post-conference will take place March 22-23.

Crash-Helmet Christianity

2008-12-27T22:04:00.004-07:00

Here's a thought I'd share with you all. A pithy little quote from Annie Dillard's book, Teaching a Stone to Talk:

"Does anyone have the foggiest idea of what sort of power we so blithely invoke? Or, as I suspect, does no one believe a word of it? The churches are children playing on the floor with their chemistry sets, mixing up a batch of TNT to kill a Sunday morning. It is madness to wear ladies' straw hats and velvet hats to church; we should all be wearing crash helmets. Ushers should issue life preservers and signal flares; they should lash us to our pews."

I just love this picture...

2008-12-25T09:43:00.003-07:00

I should do this, it's a classic idea.

Shawn Johnston of Kansas City, Kan. browses a newspaper while having a cappuccino at Homer's Coffee House in Overland Park, Kan. on Tuesday, Dec. 23, 2008. The member of Praise Chapel Christian Fellowship starting dressing as Jesus about two weeks ago to 'show people what Christmas is all about.' Many members of the congregation have been doing the same now since Thursday, Dec. 18. (Photo: AP Images / Reed Hoffmann)

Here's a related article: 400 dress as Jesus to put Christ back in Christmas

Just wishing you all a Merry Christmas!!!

2008-12-24T18:09:00.002-07:00

Since Santa Claus will be swinging through town tonight, with all his reindeer and a sleigh full of products from China (or maybe you're right now looking at the mess left over from all that he brought). I though you might enjoy a little report on who old Saint Nick really was. Check out this short video over on Religion & Ethics Newsweekly, and this cool site dedicated to St. Nicholas.

Here's to hoping you have a safe and merry Christmas!

Tis the season, baby, yaa…

2008-12-02T19:19:00.003-07:00

Here are a few things to put on your calendar. But first, we had talked about actually having a get together this December. Post a comment if you have an alternative idea to my proposal below, so we can discuss what we would like to do.

It has been revealed to me that a shopocalypse of a film, What Would Jesus Buy, will be showing on Wednesday, December 10th, 7pm, down at the Sorenson Unity Center, 1383 S 900 West. It’s free, and I propose that we make this event our get together for December. More information will be made available over at the SLC Film Center soon. (You can see the preview over on Andrew’s blog Hackman’s Musings)

Also, for those like me who want to celebrate Advent, but grew up in a church tradition that doesn’t pay any attention to it. The Catholic Diocesan Office of Liturgy has been kind enough to offer a series that “focuses on the theology, spirituality and symbolism of the advent season.” There will be three presentations, all held from 7 to 8 pm:

"Advent: A Season of Expectation", Thursday, December 4th, at St. Ann Parish, 450 E 2100 South.

"Our Lady of Guadalupe: Symbol of Hope", Tuesday, December 9th, at Our Lady of Guadalupe Chapel at Juan Diego Catholic High School, 300 E 11800 South, Draper.

"What Child Is This: The Antiphons and the Coming Messiah", Wednesday, December 17th, at St. Ann Parish, 450 E 2100 South.

And last but not least, that nutty state senator of ours, Sen. Chris Butters, R-West Jordan, wants you to have a Merry Christmas, not a Happy Holiday’s, and is willing to waste your tax dollars to make sure you know that (In the papers here and here). So send him some of your love and wish him a Happy Holiday’s at: dbuttars@utahsenate.org

Some thoughts on Prop 8 in California

2008-11-20T21:23:00.003-07:00

It was an interesting discussion on California’s passage of Prop 8 we had last night. It was the first time I think in which nobody agreed with anyone else completely on an issue. ‘Yes’ votes, ‘No’ votes, and empty boxes all round. (Andrew posts more on our discussion as well over on his blog.)

After the discussion I continued to think over things and decided I’d write down and post here some of my thoughts I've collected on the issue (and I'd like to say these are not the the thoughts of the cohort as a whole, but only my own):

The amount of money spent in this campaign by the conservative church community shows a severe sense of misplaced priorities. Those millions of dollars could have gone a long ways to helping out people in need or something, but all it was used for was to stop gay people from getting “married”. It didn’t stop them from “sinning”, it didn’t make homosexuals into heterosexuals, it didn’t end gay sex from happening, it didn’t stop people from talking about it, (nor does it stop them from protesting in the streets, yelling it from the rooftops, and all-round making a ruckus over the whole matter) all that is still there. All it did was stop gay people from getting “married”. That’s it. In short, the conservative church community spent millions of dollars just to prevent the gay community from using the word ‘marriage’ to describe the same basic thing they are apparently already doing in a ‘civil union’. (Now I’ve not studied it out in detail, but it appears to be that the only real practical difference between the two, ‘civil union’ and ‘marriage’, are the words – merely a difference in semantics, and maybe some rituals.) In other words, this doesn’t sound anything like ‘protecting marriage’ to me. It seems all rather anticlimactic and wasteful, at best it appears to be only protecting a word, for it solves nothing of what the churches really find so objectionable.

I agree with the reported comments that Tony Campolo made recently at the meeting of the Baptist General Association of Virginia, from an article in the Baptist Press:

Campolo's remarks were notable for his criticism of the recently passed Proposition 8 in California which would amend the state constitution to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

Interpreting the meeting's theme "Who Is My Neighbor?" Campolo said, "The Samaritans were those who were considered spiritually unclean, abominations in the eyes of God." Some of today's "Samaritans," he said, are the poor, Muslims, illegal immigrants and gays.

Campolo called himself "a conservative on the issue" of homosexuality, but said he opposed Proposition 8. Describing homosexual behavior "contrary to the teaching of God," he nonetheless questioned what was gained in passing the ballot initiative.

"What did we win? ... I'll tell you what we won," he said. "We won tens of thousands of gays and lesbians parading up and down the streets of San Francisco and New York and L.A. screaming against the church, seeing the church as enemy.

"I don't know how we're going to reach these brothers and sisters," he said, "but I'm an evangelical and I'm going to win them to Christ.... And we're not going to win them to Christ if we keep sending them bad messages, and we've sent them a bad message. I think the decision in California was in agreement with how I believe, but sometimes you've got to consider the person before you bang them over the head with your principles."

To expand out on my own thoughts here, I think the churches made a really bad move with their push to pass Prop 8. In the Bible, Jesus says, “By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another” (John 13:35). Well we like to tell ourselves we love them, but that’s not what the churched community is known for in the gay community. Words like ‘hate’, ‘bigot’, and ‘homophobia’ are what they use to describe the disciples of Jesus. Instead of just saying, “well they’re just wrong, we love them, and they just aren’t recognizing our love for them”, I think the church needs to seriously reexamine what it sees as ‘loving one another’, and ‘love your enemies’, and recognize the fact that we really just aren’t all that loving toward the gay community, and that we need to repent in this.

In a statement released just after Proposition 8 passed, Ron Prentice, from the ProtectMarriage.com Yes on 8 Campaign, said,

This is a great day for marriage. The people of California stood up for traditional marriage and reclaimed this great institution. We are gratified that voters chose to protect traditional marriage and to enshrine its importance in the state constitution. We trust that this decision will be respected by all Californians.

I can’t help but see this as incredibly naïve. It’s as if conservative churches think they can pass some legislation and then expect people to submit to their will without changing the hearts and minds of people. Somewhere around 18,000 gay couples got married over the past six months or so, and they are not just going to kowtow and “respect” the annulment of their marriages just because some other people’s religious sensibilities are hurt.

This isn’t Christendom, this is not a Christian nation we live in, and passing “biblically wholesome” legislation doesn’t make us more righteous as a nation. If hearts and minds are not transformed nothing has actually been accomplished.

The ultimate end of this issue I think is obvious. Just because Prop 8 passed, nothing is written in stone. California voters will pass a new amendment in a few years changing their own state constitution back to what it was before, or some Supreme Court, state or federal, will eventually overturn this ban on gay marriage. Either way, all the money, time, and effort the churches have put into “protecting marriage” will be for nothing, and the churches will eventually have to stand up and be the church in a nation that accepts gay marriage.

Meeting: November 19th

2008-11-07T20:23:00.003-07:00

Alright! This month’s meeting is happening on November 19th. We had to move it up a week because of Thanksgiving. Everyone is welcome. Meeting is at the usual place and time.

The time: 7pm, November 19th
The location: High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan

We didn’t pick a specific topic so come prepared to discuss some of your favorite blog posts, and/or articles, that you've read this past month, or just to discuss whatever comes up.

Thinking about interesting blog posts – here’s one on Obama, our new president-elect, that seemed out of the ordinary and interesting (at least to me), posted earlier today on The Immanent Frame, A public theologian. “Americans have elected the most theologically astute president since Jimmy Carter.”

And finally, I thought I’d mention something about The Voice: New Testament, yet another new translation of the New Testament, has just been released (website & excerpt). I picked up a copy last week to test drive and so far it makes for a good flowing read. Brian McLaren worked on some parts of it and discusses the project here in this video:

What now for Christians in America?

2008-11-04T23:15:00.002-07:00

Well, Obama has won and is now on his way to being our 44th president. In California, Proposition 8, is still very much up in the air as I post this, but appears to be leaning towards passage, ending gay marriage in that state. Christians in America, of all stripes, have played a significant role in these contests, having poured so much time and money into them. So, with the elections now over, what’s done is done, the votes have been cast, and the contests are now over. I was wondering: What now for Christians in America?

Salt Lake Theological Seminary is closing

2008-10-31T19:07:00.002-06:00

I just heard the disappointing news, and thought I’d forward it all onto you. The Salt Lake Theological Seminary is closing, a victim of the current economic recession. Here are a couple of articles from the Salt Lake Tribune concerning its closure: Salt Lake Theological Seminary set to close, Money runs out for S.L. seminary.

Mixing the Episcopal Church and the Assemblies of God

2008-10-30T18:34:00.006-06:00

A few months ago my wife and I stopped going to Southeast Christian Church. Now don’t get me wrong, it’s a good church, we have friends there (and William, who is a part of our cohort, serves as an elder there), we’d been going consistently there for a year or so before we left, and we have a history with that church going back at least to early 2004. But we live out on the edge of society here in Eagle Mountain, a 45-minute drive away; this distance, with our work schedules, and our two-year old, Maya, made things a bit inhibitive, especially for my wife. We couldn’t connect up with people and events to really spend time and build relationships. We had tried a local church once before, a little independent fundamentalist Bible church plant for a couple of years, but that didn’t really work out. Since then another church plant has come into the area, so we thought we’d have a go with it, Coram Deo, officially with the Assemblies of God. This would allow us to work in and build relationships with people in our community.

For my wife it’s a good place to go. The pastor and the people are great, and there are a bunch of kids for Maya to have friends growing up. And it is unique I think in that we have a meal with every service; we all sit down and eat lunch together and enjoy each other’s company (this meal together may change a bit for its new evening service, but we’ll see). Eating together isn’t something rare, and people don’t run out the door just after service is over (as they so often unfortunately did at Southeast Christian).

But for me… I guess I have an itch that needs scratching. All these churches I’ve been going to are conservative, and ahistorical (as in they recognize the church in Acts, and then came some later-day movement, whether it be the Reformation, the Stone-Campbell Restoration, or Azusa Street, everything in between is ya-know… kind of a mystery mixed with apostasy). The focus and heart of the Sunday service, and most else, is the sermon. So anyway, over the past few years, I’ve been reading up stuff on or by the early church and not seeing much of it in our modern church, and reading up on postmodern philosophy and finding that I agree with much of the picture it is painting of the world I live in. It occurred to me that I needed to step out of my mental box, take a look around, and do church differently, to think differently, to stretch, and maybe do a little liturgy. And since I’ve read a handful of Anglican theologians and resonate with what they say, I’ve decided to go to an Episcopal church.

So for the past what… couple of months now, I’ve been going to St. James Episcopal Church. It’s just been me. My wife and daughter have been going to our local Coram Deo. Once the sacrament of coffee closes out at the Episcopal Church on Sunday morning, I drive off to lunch at Coram Deo with the family. And now with their new additional evening service, I will be active and finding ways to serve at both churches; the Episcopal one in the morning, and our local Pentecostal church plant in the evening.

I think it’s interesting this mix of things. I feel like I’m a conservative at the Episcopal Church. The diocese is theologically liberal, and it openly accepts members who are gay, but since it’s not centered on “doctrinal correctness” it has a flexibility that allows room for those who disagree with some of the liberalness. At Coram Deo I feel like I’m a liberal. The church tends toward a more-or-less literal view of the Bible, i.e. creationism, Jonah really was swallowed by a fish, etc., where I lend to a more metaphorical view in many areas of the Bible. In each there are people with problems, issues, and points of view (among whom I am most certainly included), as well as big hearts, in each we are struggling to love each other and love God; one church is no better than the other. Between the tradition of liturgy and ritual in the one, and something much more freeform in the other, the different ways of approaching the Bible, the church’s history, and how to understand this mysterious God we worship, this diversity and contrast, gives me much to think about, wrestle with, and learn.

I think I’d recommend doing something like this for everyone. We need to step outside of our mental maps. To look at things from a different angle, to try new things, or should I say some old things that we have neglected to do. And not just to visit, but to spend some time, and get to know people. Not to just accept any one particular way of seeing, doing, or experiencing, but to test things by really seeking to understand the other.

National Student Dialogue Conference II

2008-10-22T21:01:00.001-06:00

Friday & Saturday
October 24-25th, 2008
Utah Valley University

Student Price: $29 before Oct. 17th, $39 After
Non-Student Price: $39 before Oct. 17th, $49 After

This two-day conference on dialogue will involve key religious leaders and thinkers who will speak from both LDS and evangelical perspectives.

Speakers Include:

Dr. Robert Millet, Brigham Young University
Dr. Jerry Root, Wheaton College
Dr. Spencer Fluhman, Brigham Young University
Dr. Dennis Okholm, Azusa Pacific University
Dr. Brian Birch, Utah Valley University
Dr. John-Mark Reynolds, Biola University
Dr. Robert Wood, Quorum of the Seventy-LDS Church
Dr. Del Tacket, Truth Project-Focus on the Family

A block of rooms has been put on hold at the La Quinta Inn – Orem University Parkway (521 W. University Pkwy, Orem UT 84058). Please call 801-226-0440 or 800-531-5900, to make your reservations by October 3, 2008. Let them know you are reserving a room blocked off for Standing Together and the National Student Dialogue Conference. The rate per room is $79 per night.

The maximum capacity for this event is 300 seats. Register now to ensure your spot!

*There is a special scholarship for the first 100 Latter-day Saint students to have their registration fee waived. When filling out the online registration form, please select the option "LDS Student Scholarship".

The National Student Dialogue Conference II is sponsored by Standing Together & the Religious Studies Department of Utah Valley University.

More info at Standing Together.

National Student Dialogue Conference II

2008-10-19T20:22:00.004-06:00

Also, I wanted to mention that this week is the National Student Dialogue Conference II. I know I should have mentioned it here earlier, but I confess, I can sometimes be a little lazy. BTW, I myself won't be able to make it, but if anyone reading this is going let us know in the comments below and let us know how it goes.

Some basic information:

Friday & Saturday, October 24-25th, 2008, Utah Valley University

Student Price: $39, Non-Student Price: $49

This two-day conference on dialogue will involve key religious leaders and thinkers who will speak from both LDS and evangelical perspectives.

Go to their website for more information, to register, and pay online.

Meeting, October 22nd

2008-10-19T20:10:00.002-06:00

The usual time: 7pm, October 22nd
The usual location: High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan

We decided not to read the book we had originally planned to read since everyone was so busy this month with other projects. Instead come share and discuss some of your favorite blog posts, and/or articles, you've read this past month.

Bishop to address immigration and faith

2008-10-07T19:59:00.005-06:00

From the Deseret News:

Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church welcomes the Most Rev. John Wester, bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City, as guest speaker on Sunday, Oct. 12, 6 p.m. Bishop Wester will speak on "Immigration from a Faith Perspective" within the setting for evening prayer. A dessert reception follows. The public is invited. Call 582-2321 for more details.

The address for Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church is 1070 S Foothill Dr, Salt Lake City, UT 84108

I plan to go. Anyone want to join me?

Update made 10/13/2008:

The reporters were there. On Fox 13's broadcast clip you can see the back of my head, and the Deseret News had an article.

A few things

2008-10-04T18:02:00.003-06:00

Our next get together will be Wednesday, October 22nd, again at High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan. I’ll send out another reminder notice a little closer to the meeting date. We decided not to read the book we had planned to read since everyone is so busy this month with other projects. Instead we plan to share and discuss some of our favorite blog posts, or articles, we’ve read this past month.

And thinking about articles, here are a couple of articles worth reading by Scot McKnight, in Christianity Today: McLaren Emerging, and The Ironic Faith of Emergents. Also, in the Salt Lake Tribune today there was a brief article on my favorite local Christian bookstore: The Open Book Store.

For anyone out there who might want to read and discuss a book this month, I’ve just picked up Phyllis Tickle’s new book, The Great Emergence, so if anyone would like to join me just let me know and we can set something up.

Lastly, Bill Maher’s new film Religulous is now out in theaters, and is showing down at the Broadway Centre Cinemas. I hope to catch it sometime this week, so if anyone would like to join me let me know.

Brennan Manning In Ogden, UT Sept. 26 and 27

2008-09-15T20:12:00.002-06:00

Brennan Manning, a well-known author and speaker, will present a seminar at Washington Heights Baptist Church, 1770 E. 6200 South, Ogden, on Sept. 26 and 27.

Click Here for an article in the local paper and more details.

Theological Seminary free public lecture

2008-09-06T15:55:00.005-06:00

Notice from the Deseret News:

A free public lecture, Israel's Extermination of Canaanites, Globalization and Religious Pluralism in a Post 9/11 World, will be at 7 p.m. Thursday at the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, 699 E. South Temple.

The guest speaker will be Dr. Glen Taylor, Old Testament professor of the Theological College of Tajikistan, who studied at Jerusalem University College and completed his Ph.D. at the University of Gloucestershire in the United Kingdom.

For more information, call 581-1900.

From the Salt Lake Theological Seminary:

After the events of 9/11, Christians struggle more than ever with the harshness of herem: the treatment of Canaanites by Israel prescribed by God in the Old Testament. It raises issues of relationship between religious conviction and tolerance, unity and diversity, politics and morals. How does this holy ban speak to us theologically and ethically in the modern context? A close reading of herem texts reveals an interplay that gives coherence to the development of the biblical vision of the ideal community, the Kingdom of God.

Phyllis Tickle: "It won’t be 10 percent right now, but I would be floored if its not 20 percent next year."

2008-09-02T21:42:00.002-06:00

Phyllis Tickle, editor of the religion department at Publishers Weekly, and author of several books on fixed hour prayer, has a new book coming out later this month, The Great Emergence: How Christianity Is Changing and Why. To get a whiff of what the book is about I recommend you read a couple articles out in a recent addition of Sojourners (available here and here, after you fill out their free registration).

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution had an interesting article out the other day related to the book’s upcoming release, and quoted Tickle several times. I thought I’d post a few extended excerpts here that I thought were interesting, and prophetic, from the article to see what any of you might think about what she’s saying.

The revolution has begun.

Quietly, maybe, but symptoms are bubbling up.

They include Bible studies in bars, friends starting their own churches in houses, or congregations trying a smattering of everything —- music of the Middle Ages and the latest rock anthems, Saturday morning and Thursday night meetings. Pentecostals are adopting liturgy and Episcopalians are speaking in tongues.

“[The changes are] led by all those who wish to remain faithful, but feel something is not quite right in the church,” said Tickle,

This new movement, which she refers to as emerging or emergent Christianity, will have as big an impact as the Reformation, Tickle predicts.

How many churchgoers know about what she is talking about?

“It won’t be 10 percent right now,” she said. “But I would be floored if its not 20 percent next year. The restlessness now is almost palpable.”

The movement is loosely organized, and often quiet. It is made up of people who have gotten to know each other through word-of-mouth, on Internet sites or at conferences where writer-pastors such as Brian McLaren and Tony Jones speak.

The movement’s members are passionate and experimental, socially conscious and ecumenical, deeply devoted to early church disciplines, such a prayer, but they feel free to question and reinterpret long-held beliefs, [Steve Hayner, a professor of church growth at Columbia Theological Seminary in Decatur] said.

Troy Bronsink, a former Presbyterian pastor who leads a strand of the Atlanta movement, describes some involved as “refugees from ecclesiological abuse.”

Discussion groups and the participants’ relationships create a safe space for those willing to question the religion they grew up with and think and talk about new ways to live out their faith, he said.

Tickle said, “When somebody says they are relativists, I want to smack them upside their heads.”

One has to take belief seriously to question and reposition a faith so that it is meaningful in current culture, she said. And the critics should get used to these faithful who look back to the roots of the faith as well as lean into the future with it.

“Before it’s over, it’s going to be 60 percent of Christianity,” she predicted.

Next emergent cohort meeting is September 24th

2008-09-02T18:47:00.002-06:00

The usual time: 7pm, September 24th
The usual location: High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan

We’ll be reviewing the book The Lost Letters of Pergamum, by Bruce W. Longenecker

Our next meeting on August 20

2008-08-12T23:11:00.002-06:00

We’re changing things up a little and meeting a week earlier than we normally have the last few months. It will be Wednesday, August 20th, at 7pm, over at High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan.

We’ll be discussing the article “Crucified Lord or Conquering Saviour: Whose Story of Salvation” by Sylvia C. Keesmaat, as well as both the epistles of Philippians and Romans. So you’ll want to spend sometime reading (the article is short) and preparing. (But if for whatever reason you can’t read the above, come anyway. I’m sure you will still be able to participate.)

Interesting event coming up

2008-08-12T22:40:00.002-06:00

I saw this in the weekly bulletin of St. Mary’s Episcopal Church, which I visited a couple of Sundays ago. This sounds like it would be interesting to go see:

Have you ever been confused or frustrated with the way Christians use the Bible to fight with each other? Tired of Christians using portions of the Bible to prove other Christians wrong? Then join us at the Open Book Store (ECCU) September 20, 10:00 am -1:30 pm. Author, Dean, & President of the Church Divinity School of the Pacific, Dr. Donn Morgan, Ph.D will address these issues, and more. Participants will have an opportunity to test out constructive ways to use the Bible and its very different teachings in parish and other contexts. Copies of his book Fighting with the Bible will be on sale. Register now by e-mail with name(s) and phone number to mnestler@episcopal-ut.org. Cost $15.00 per person, including lunch, payable at the door.

And that does appear to be a new Christian bookstore located in downtown, at the new the Episcopal Church Center of Utah, 75 South 200 East, Salt Lake City, UT. I haven’t checked that bookstore out yet to see what it’s made of, but I hope to soon.

Some additional information from their weekly bulletin:

The new diocesan bookstore, The Open Book, is now open! We carry a wide assortment of books and gifts for progressive Christians, including Bibles, the Book of Common Prayer, works in classical and contemporary spirituality, history and theology, and children’s books. We are happy to recommend books for special occasions or gifts. And, we are happy to place special orders and mail your purchase to you if you live outside the Salt Lake metro area. Come visit us. Our hours are 10 a.m. until 5 p.m. Monday through Thursday and 9 a.m. until noon on Fridays. We are located on the Commons at the Episcopal Church Center of Utah, 75 S. 200 E., in Salt Lake City. Contact either Jessica Hatch or Barbara Losse for information, questions or to place an order: 801-595-5362, or send an email to bookstore@episcopal-ut.org

Christian Unity

2008-08-07T08:13:00.001-06:00

I had an interesting thing happen to me a few weeks ago that I thought I might share:
On Friday nights I play in the Christian softball league here in town. I have been playing in this league for as long as I have lived here (13 years). There are 16 teams in this league representing 14 different Christian churches in the valley. It has always been the custom for the two teams to form a circle and pray together after the post-game handshakes. For 13 years I have seen every team adhere to this custom - until this season. We have a church in the league this year with 2 teams entered and they refuse to pray with their opponents after the games. Recently, after playing 3 games this season against these guys I confronted them about not praying with us or any other teams in the league. I was told that they are not sure we are TRULY Christians and, since they take worship very seriously, they don’t want to pray with us, just in case.
Exclusiveness… superiority… arrogance…? I don’t know; these ARE attitudes that some Christians somehow extract from the gospel. They are all too eager to judge each other by their positions on controversial issues like evolution, stem cell research, abortion, gay rights, capital punishment, political party affiliation, etc., as well as theological stances. Like the guys from those softball teams, too many Christians jump to reckless assumptions about other Christians until they can run them through their “Christian standards” checklist to approve of them or not. And, almost always, the standards are based on arguable interpretations of Bible text or some distortion in its practical application. There is a disturbing pride that many Christians seem to derive when upholding their viewpoints, becoming vocal, even angry, with those who disagree. They forget that their salvation is a gift that they should not boast. Many of them have erroneously drawn the conclusion, from somewhere other than their Bibles, that anything less than THEIR church’s/denomination’s interpretation of certain sections of the Bible (particularly Genesis and Revelation) puts one in only a “maybe” relationship w/ God. There are many people with an education in science, philosophy, or social/behavioral sciences who are Believers but will not set foot in a church because they want to avoid legalist Christians like the plague. One’s relationship with God is its own reality and whatever anyone else thinks about it is, at its most basic level (between God and the individual), irrelevant. But there are larger implications for the universal church body.
To be sure, there ARE essential doctrines inherent to Christianity, without which it would cease to be Christianity. The duties of elders and ministers are to shepherd the flock and uphold the doctrine of the church. We DO have to be on guard against counterfeit christian organizations in the world. Meanwhile, it must be recognized that there are non-essential doctrines to our faith, also. For example, even though the majority of people in my congregation may adhere to a literalist view of creation, we agree that specifics on origins and specifics on eschatology are non-essentials for salvation or fellowship.
If it’s not hard enough for Christians to agree on what the essentials are, so many Christians are deeply embedded in an “either/or” rationale. In other words, they put issues into a dichotomy: either x is true, OR y is true, and then assume they are mutually exclusive. They don’t consider the possibility that x and y may BOTH be true... or false. Moreover, there may even be a z that is true! For example:
1) The Bible is God’s word, or The Bible is not God’s word.
2) Literal Bible interpretation is true, or Metaphorical Bible interpretation is true.
3) The Bible gives an account of origins, or Science gives an account of origins.
In philosophical lingo these are examples of a false dichotomy. In other words, you are trying to force your opponent into an extreme position because you offer only two possible choices. Does this sound familiar? Either “You believe the Bible literally,” or “You are calling God a liar.” Metaphysical materialists also use false dichotomy when arguing with theistic evolutionists. They are notorious for this. Examples:
1) “You believe your science textbook,” or “You believe your Bible.”
2) “You are an accomplished scientist,” or “You believe in God.”

The great thinkers of the church and early shapers of Christian doctrine - Paul, Augustine and Thomas Aquinas – probably roll over in their graves at the lack of critical thinking sometimes demonstrated in the church. For instance, I am sure Paul believed the literal 6 days of creation, Adam and Eve story, sin causing corporal death, etc. It is evident in Romans that he did and there is a rationale for it (receiving inspiration while living in a Jewish culture in a pre-scientific age). But if he were somehow to show up on the scene today and be exposed to the scientific data with which we now have access, I am confident his divinely inspired message would be more in a context of what we believe about the world today. He would be true to his strategy of being all things to all people to the glory of Christ. But here’s the point: Paul would deliver exactly the same SPIRITUAL message. Many Christians appear to be unable to make the distinction between content and method – the deeper message is the same whether it is written in a pre-scientific context or 21st century context. In addition, such legalistic Christians seem to be completely unaware that the doctrine they adhere to today (the Trinity, the divinity and humanity of Christ, baptism, etc.) was not all processed into systematic theology in the days of the writing of the NT. It took decades, even centuries, to address different points of theology AS THE NEED AROSE (heresies, persecution, reformation, counter-reformation). Today there IS a need for the church to address certain theological and political issues as they affect the life of the church as well as individual Christians. But this must be carried out by looking for the deeper message of the Scriptures as seen through a context of what we know about the world today. And it must be done without erroneously transforming political issues into theological ones.
Now, I have no idea exactly what kinds of heresies the “softball guys” are on the lookout for. But what struck me the most is that the strongest emotion I detected from them was: FEAR. Thankfully, I cannot comprehend what that is like – Fear in a God so harsh that an attempt at genuine fellowship with other brothers and sisters in Christ should be forsaken “just in case” their theological standards are not perfectly aligned. And, of course, they are CERTAIN their standards are God’s standards. Christians should be the most secure people on the planet! Yet these guys seem to be almost paralyzed with fear of … something!
What the Emergent Cohort in Salt Lake City has been for me is for Christians from different backgrounds to enjoy each others’ company and discuss topics without being judged or ridiculed – just sharing ideas, knowing and accepting from the start that it’s unavoidable to have differences in opinion, but still able to embrace a friendship that is rooted in Christ.

Our next meeting July 23rd

2008-07-17T21:34:00.002-06:00

Since we don’t have any specific topic picked out for this meeting, how about we spend some time discussing just what we each think Emergent is.

Also, we had talked about following along with the upcoming Reclaiming Paul conference, discussing the reading material, and follow-up stuff generated after the conference. That begins in August, so you will want to start preparing now. Make sure you can get access to the books we’ll be discussing (here is the previous post with links).

A blog has been set up associated with the conference that you may want to check out, and here are a couple of YouTube videos discussing it:

Jesus in China

2008-06-20T21:22:00.003-06:00

There has been a lot of reporting on the church in China the past couple of months. The cover page article in Christianity Today, May 2008, and as well the main theme of Christian History & Biography, Spring 2008, currently available on news stands in most local B&N and Borders. And I just found out that FRONTLINE/World, on PBS, this Tuesday at 8pm, will have a feature Jesus in China. With the Olympics coming up, and with all the focus on China, as well as China’s rapid economic growth, and the surprising growing affluence and influence of the church there, it will be interesting to watch developments there.

Our next meeting June 25th

2008-06-18T19:09:00.003-06:00

We don’t have any specific topic set up, but I thought we might discuss theology, spiritual, and philosophical books… what we’re reading now, what we’ve read, our favorites, recommended, and what we want to read and why. So of course we will probably whined up talking about all sorts of things.

~~Also, I’ve decided to go back to school. I plan to audit a course at our local~~ Salt Lake Theological Seminary, ~~the class The Message of the Psalms: God’s Rule in a World of Trouble, I’ve already anteed up the class fees and ordered the books.~~ [Unfortunately, my class was just cancelled] (Check out there summer course schedule for classes if you’re interested.)

Be prepared to go on a book buying apocalypse after this get together. :^)

The Hope That You Have

2008-06-16T22:34:00.005-06:00

I had some more thoughts on hope and why I feel it may be more useful than beliefs.

Peter said:
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

I believe Peter was very specific with his choice of words. Notice he did not ask us to be prepared to give reasons for our beliefs.

One reason hope tends to be more useful is because it is not a matter of right or wrong. I could believe with my whole heart that something is true... then find out it isn't. How often has this happened to us?

Hope speaks to our desires and where our heart is going. I think scripture shows that God tends to focus on our hearts.

Hope allows me to fellowship. I just had a great walk and conversation with a good friend of mine. He is LDS and I am not. Many people find it difficult to fellowship with someone of a different faith. My friend and I do not have this problem and I think it is due to Hope. We have beliefs that are very different and we often candidly discuss them. However, above our beliefs we find that we share a common Hope - That God is a loving God who wants us to grow in Him. That Goodness will triumph. That this will all end in a way better than either of us can imagine.

Some upcoming plans

2008-06-01T23:08:00.002-06:00

Emergent Village will be having their theological conversation event, Reclaiming Paul: The Apostle in the Emerging World, in late October. If any of us can go, great. But I know I can’t go, and I would still like to participate in some way. So we had discussed reading the books the conversation will be going over and doing some of our own conversing over them, and then participate in some of the blogging and the podcasts that will probably be periodically made available on Emergent Village after the conversation.

Here’s a possible itinerary we could do, following along with the reading material that goes with this theological conversation:

For our August meeting we can read and discuss the article “Crucified Lord or Conquering Saviour: Whose Story of Salvation” by Sylvia C. Keesmaat, and Philippians & Romans in the Net Bible Translation.

For September, we can discuss The Lost Letters of Pergamum, by Bruce W. Longenecker.

The conversation is set to start on the same day our get together is scheduled (fourth Wednesday), so we can discuss the book by one of the events main speakers, Reading Paul, by Michael Gorman.

What do you guys think? If this is a go then you’ll want to order the books now and have the book read before the meeting for that book so we can discuss.

Reminder

2008-05-24T12:28:00.003-06:00

Our discussion get together is this Wednesday, 7pm, over at High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan.

Also, I thought I’d mention that the emerging church and Brian McLaren (not the Salt Lake Emergent Cohort) were in today’s Religion/Ethics section of the Deseret News. It’s a reprint of an earlier AP interview with Brian McLaren that’s been circulating for a few weeks now. It’s good to see our local paper pick it up.

In the same section of the paper they also mention a film/presentation that will be showing down at the main library this Tuesday. The documentary film Conviction, at 7pm, Tuesday, free; one of the nuns in the film, Sister Jackie Hudson, who went to prison for her protest, will be speaking there and taking questions as well. I plan to go, so if anyone wants to join me.

Great Brueggemann Quote

2008-05-14T22:58:00.003-06:00

"When serious people of good faith disagree, they've got to go back into the narratives and come at it again. One of the problems in the church is that people are not willing to do that. People have arrived at a place where they think they have got the answer." ~ Walter Brueggemann

From a talk on Leviticus, given at First Presbyterian Church of Knoxville. Click here to listen.

Believe or Hope?

2008-05-08T15:39:00.008-06:00

My beliefs, due to various circumstances, have been under the microscope lately. This causes me to turn them in the light and try to view them from different angles.

I notice I have few solid beliefs. I see many things with a kind of dual vision. I hear opposing persons speak, and I see validity in both opinions. I read apparently contradicting scripture and am comfortable maintaining both views. This does not always go over well in Christian circles. I end up making one side or the other uncomfortable.

I came across a response I had given to a friend who had recently de-converted. He posted this question on his blog, "How do you, as a christian, maintain faith in a belief where there is no concrete proof?" My response to him is below and I think it articulates why, though I love theology, I don't put much stock in having "the right beliefs".
_____________________________________________________

I can only speak for me, but I don't feel a need to get around a lack of proof. Maybe because, technically, I don't really have beliefs. Probably what I have could be more accurately described as a conglomeration of hopes.

The thought that death would simply bring on my non-existence depresses me. A hundred years or so from now, no one would really even know I ever existed. It would be as if I were never here.
When I look at my son or daughter sleeping at night, the thought that they too will go into the void is even worse. My heart sinks at the thought.
When I see art, music, technology, stories and life... my heart overflows. It brings me to despair to think that could ALL be snuffed out by one poorly timed comet.

I HOPE the God I knew as a child does not exist. This god seems to see most of humanity in torture for eternity an acceptable response to their not believing He was standing behind the curtain.

I HOPE the God of 1 Cor 13 exists, one who always trusts, always perseveres, never keeps records of wrongs, and never fails.

I HOPE God is a cross between Aslan and Willy Wonka (the Gene Wilder version). One who has all the bases covered, even if we aren't aware of it yet. Who really wants you to do what is right, but will let you chew the gum if you are bound, set, and determined.

I HOPE when this story comes to a close, everyone lives happily ever after (even if the start of their story was fairly shitty).

I HOPE there is a God out there who feels about us the way I do about my son and daughter.

I HOPE the source of my love is a God who shares that love.

I am aware that this may be an empty hope in the end, but it is the one I cling to.
________________________________________________________

I am finding hope to be a much more satisfying thing to cling to than belief.

For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. ~ Romans 8:24-25

A couple of movies to make you thirsty

2008-05-04T19:24:00.002-06:00

The SLC Film Center will be showing a couple of interesting films this week on the commoditization of water. The price is right (they’re free), so I plan to go to both. If you’re interested in joining me, let me know, email me or comment below.

Sed (Thirst) - Monday, May 05 2008 - 7:00PM
Salt Lake City Main Public Library - in the Auditorium

Flow: For Love Of Water - Thursday, May 08 2008 - 7:00PM
The Post Theatre, 110 S. Fort Douglas Blvd, University of Utah Campus

We had our first get together, and here’s a little on what we’re going to do next

2008-04-26T13:58:00.002-06:00

Well, it was a great start, the three of us who came had a great conversation, learned more about one another, and became friends. I had brought a camera to get some pictures, but I forgot to take it out.

We have adjusted our meeting times so as to try to accommodate more who want to come, we plan to meet on the fourth Wednesday of every month over at High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan. That will make our next meeting on May 28th, at 7pm.

Of course not everyone still can make that time, so we plan to use this blog and the facebook group to coordinate some of the other things we’ll do.

First, we plan to use this blog to announce events we learn of that might be of interest for the rest of the group, and coordinate rides, meet-ups, whatever for those of us who might like to make it. Events like the “An Evangelical and a Mormon in Conversation” event that Standing Together occasionally puts on, going and seeing the head of the Episcopal Church, Bishop Jefferts Schori, who was out here last week, or going to our local Beer Festival.

Brent and I are planning on using the facebook group’s discussion forum for some of the early church writings we hope to read and discuss here soon.

Also, I plan to start blogging through a few books on my personal blog, I figure it will help me retain the stuff I’m reading better, and, who knows, it may generate a good conversation or two. So I’ll post a link to them here when I start them up. First up will be Post-Modernism 101, by Heath White.

What is an Emergent Cohort?

2008-04-11T22:44:00.001-06:00

Emergent Village has just posted a YouTube video that captures a little bit of what we are trying to do.

Our First Meeting

2008-04-09T19:49:00.002-06:00

Our first meeting will be Thursday evening, April 24th, 7:00 pm, at High Point Coffee, located at 1735 West 7800 South, West Jordan, UT 84088

You don’t have to bring anything except maybe a little money to buy a coffee, and an appetite for theological conversation. Since it’s our first meeting I’m sure we will spend some of the time figuring out what we will want to do in future meetings and where we’ll want to take things.

Starting up an Emergent Cohort in Utah

2008-04-06T09:14:00.002-06:00

I’d like to announce that a few friends and I have decided to start up one of these here Emergent Cohort thingies. We figured it’s about time Salt Lake had one so we’re putting one together. So far it looks like we might have five, there is Andrew and a couple of his friends from over at K2, and then there is Michael and I from over at Southeast Christian Church.

We are also interested in knowing what other emergent things are going on up and down the Wasatch Front. So if you know what the heck we are talking about when we use the word “emergent”, and you’re doing something related to it (or would like to), well, let us know, because we’d like to know.

BTW, we are still working out a date for our first meeting, so if you’re interested do let us know now and we maybe able to work out a time to help meet your schedule.

Now what was the name of that movie… Field of Dreams? …build it and they will come. Hmm… let’s see what happens.