Salt Lake Theological Seminary is closing

I just heard the disappointing news, and thought I’d forward it all onto you. The Salt Lake Theological Seminary is closing, a victim of the current economic recession. Here are a couple of articles from the Salt Lake Tribune concerning its closure: Salt Lake Theological Seminary set to close, Money runs out for S.L. seminary.

Mixing the Episcopal Church and the Assemblies of God

A few months ago my wife and I stopped going to Southeast Christian Church. Now don’t get me wrong, it’s a good church, we have friends there (and William, who is a part of our cohort, serves as an elder there), we’d been going consistently there for a year or so before we left, and we have a history with that church going back at least to early 2004. But we live out on the edge of society here in Eagle Mountain, a 45-minute drive away; this distance, with our work schedules, and our two-year old, Maya, made things a bit inhibitive, especially for my wife. We couldn’t connect up with people and events to really spend time and build relationships. We had tried a local church once before, a little independent fundamentalist Bible church plant for a couple of years, but that didn’t really work out. Since then another church plant has come into the area, so we thought we’d have a go with it, Coram Deo, officially with the Assemblies of God. This would allow us to work in and build relationships with people in our community.

For my wife it’s a good place to go. The pastor and the people are great, and there are a bunch of kids for Maya to have friends growing up. And it is unique I think in that we have a meal with every service; we all sit down and eat lunch together and enjoy each other’s company (this meal together may change a bit for its new evening service, but we’ll see). Eating together isn’t something rare, and people don’t run out the door just after service is over (as they so often unfortunately did at Southeast Christian).

But for me… I guess I have an itch that needs scratching. All these churches I’ve been going to are conservative, and ahistorical (as in they recognize the church in Acts, and then came some later-day movement, whether it be the Reformation, the Stone-Campbell Restoration, or Azusa Street, everything in between is ya-know… kind of a mystery mixed with apostasy). The focus and heart of the Sunday service, and most else, is the sermon. So anyway, over the past few years, I’ve been reading up stuff on or by the early church and not seeing much of it in our modern church, and reading up on postmodern philosophy and finding that I agree with much of the picture it is painting of the world I live in. It occurred to me that I needed to step out of my mental box, take a look around, and do church differently, to think differently, to stretch, and maybe do a little liturgy. And since I’ve read a handful of Anglican theologians and resonate with what they say, I’ve decided to go to an Episcopal church.

So for the past what… couple of months now, I’ve been going to St. James Episcopal Church. It’s just been me. My wife and daughter have been going to our local Coram Deo. Once the sacrament of coffee closes out at the Episcopal Church on Sunday morning, I drive off to lunch at Coram Deo with the family. And now with their new additional evening service, I will be active and finding ways to serve at both churches; the Episcopal one in the morning, and our local Pentecostal church plant in the evening.

I think it’s interesting this mix of things. I feel like I’m a conservative at the Episcopal Church. The diocese is theologically liberal, and it openly accepts members who are gay, but since it’s not centered on “doctrinal correctness” it has a flexibility that allows room for those who disagree with some of the liberalness. At Coram Deo I feel like I’m a liberal. The church tends toward a more-or-less literal view of the Bible, i.e. creationism, Jonah really was swallowed by a fish, etc., where I lend to a more metaphorical view in many areas of the Bible. In each there are people with problems, issues, and points of view (among whom I am most certainly included), as well as big hearts, in each we are struggling to love each other and love God; one church is no better than the other. Between the tradition of liturgy and ritual in the one, and something much more freeform in the other, the different ways of approaching the Bible, the church’s history, and how to understand this mysterious God we worship, this diversity and contrast, gives me much to think about, wrestle with, and learn.

I think I’d recommend doing something like this for everyone. We need to step outside of our mental maps. To look at things from a different angle, to try new things, or should I say some old things that we have neglected to do. And not just to visit, but to spend some time, and get to know people. Not to just accept any one particular way of seeing, doing, or experiencing, but to test things by really seeking to understand the other.

National Student Dialogue Conference II

Friday & Saturday
October 24-25th, 2008
Utah Valley University

Student Price: $29 before Oct. 17th, $39 After
Non-Student Price: $39 before Oct. 17th, $49 After


This two-day conference on dialogue will involve key religious leaders and thinkers who will speak from both LDS and evangelical perspectives.

Speakers Include:

Dr. Robert Millet, Brigham Young University
Dr. Jerry Root, Wheaton College
Dr. Spencer Fluhman, Brigham Young University
Dr. Dennis Okholm, Azusa Pacific University
Dr. Brian Birch, Utah Valley University
Dr. John-Mark Reynolds, Biola University
Dr. Robert Wood, Quorum of the Seventy-LDS Church
Dr. Del Tacket, Truth Project-Focus on the Family

A block of rooms has been put on hold at the La Quinta Inn – Orem University Parkway (521 W. University Pkwy, Orem UT 84058). Please call 801-226-0440 or 800-531-5900, to make your reservations by October 3, 2008. Let them know you are reserving a room blocked off for Standing Together and the National Student Dialogue Conference. The rate per room is $79 per night.

The maximum capacity for this event is 300 seats. Register now to ensure your spot!

*There is a special scholarship for the first 100 Latter-day Saint students to have their registration fee waived. When filling out the online registration form, please select the option "LDS Student Scholarship".

The National Student Dialogue Conference II is sponsored by Standing Together & the Religious Studies Department of Utah Valley University.

More info at Standing Together.

National Student Dialogue Conference II

Also, I wanted to mention that this week is the National Student Dialogue Conference II. I know I should have mentioned it here earlier, but I confess, I can sometimes be a little lazy. BTW, I myself won't be able to make it, but if anyone reading this is going let us know in the comments below and let us know how it goes.

Some basic information:

Friday & Saturday, October 24-25th, 2008, Utah Valley University

Student Price: $39, Non-Student Price: $49

This two-day conference on dialogue will involve key religious leaders and thinkers who will speak from both LDS and evangelical perspectives.

Go to their website for more information, to register, and pay online.

Meeting, October 22nd

The usual time: 7pm, October 22nd
The usual location: High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan

We decided not to read the book we had originally planned to read since everyone was so busy this month with other projects. Instead come share and discuss some of your favorite blog posts, and/or articles, you've read this past month.

Bishop to address immigration and faith

From the Deseret News:

Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church welcomes the Most Rev. John Wester, bishop of the Catholic Diocese of Salt Lake City, as guest speaker on Sunday, Oct. 12, 6 p.m. Bishop Wester will speak on "Immigration from a Faith Perspective" within the setting for evening prayer. A dessert reception follows. The public is invited. Call 582-2321 for more details.

The address for Zion Evangelical Lutheran Church is 1070 S Foothill Dr, Salt Lake City, UT 84108

I plan to go. Anyone want to join me?

Update made 10/13/2008:

The reporters were there. On Fox 13's broadcast clip you can see the back of my head, and the Deseret News had an article.

A few things

Our next get together will be Wednesday, October 22nd, again at High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan. I’ll send out another reminder notice a little closer to the meeting date. We decided not to read the book we had planned to read since everyone is so busy this month with other projects. Instead we plan to share and discuss some of our favorite blog posts, or articles, we’ve read this past month.

And thinking about articles, here are a couple of articles worth reading by Scot McKnight, in Christianity Today: McLaren Emerging, and The Ironic Faith of Emergents. Also, in the Salt Lake Tribune today there was a brief article on my favorite local Christian bookstore: The Open Book Store.

For anyone out there who might want to read and discuss a book this month, I’ve just picked up Phyllis Tickle’s new book, The Great Emergence, so if anyone would like to join me just let me know and we can set something up.

Lastly, Bill Maher’s new film Religulous is now out in theaters, and is showing down at the Broadway Centre Cinemas. I hope to catch it sometime this week, so if anyone would like to join me let me know.

Brennan Manning In Ogden, UT Sept. 26 and 27

Brennan Manning, a well-known author and speaker, will present a seminar at Washington Heights Baptist Church, 1770 E. 6200 South, Ogden, on Sept. 26 and 27.

Click Here for an article in the local paper and more details.

Theological Seminary free public lecture

Notice from the Deseret News:

A free public lecture, Israel's Extermination of Canaanites, Globalization and Religious Pluralism in a Post 9/11 World, will be at 7 p.m. Thursday at the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, 699 E. South Temple.

The guest speaker will be Dr. Glen Taylor, Old Testament professor of the Theological College of Tajikistan, who studied at Jerusalem University College and completed his Ph.D. at the University of Gloucestershire in the United Kingdom.

For more information, call 581-1900.

From the Salt Lake Theological Seminary:

After the events of 9/11, Christians struggle more than ever with the harshness of herem: the treatment of Canaanites by Israel prescribed by God in the Old Testament. It raises issues of relationship between religious conviction and tolerance, unity and diversity, politics and morals. How does this holy ban speak to us theologically and ethically in the modern context? A close reading of herem texts reveals an interplay that gives coherence to the development of the biblical vision of the ideal community, the Kingdom of God.

Phyllis Tickle: "It won’t be 10 percent right now, but I would be floored if its not 20 percent next year."

Phyllis Tickle, editor of the religion department at Publishers Weekly, and author of several books on fixed hour prayer, has a new book coming out later this month, The Great Emergence: How Christianity Is Changing and Why. To get a whiff of what the book is about I recommend you read a couple articles out in a recent addition of Sojourners (available here and here, after you fill out their free registration).

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution had an interesting article out the other day related to the book’s upcoming release, and quoted Tickle several times. I thought I’d post a few extended excerpts here that I thought were interesting, and prophetic, from the article to see what any of you might think about what she’s saying.

The revolution has begun.

Quietly, maybe, but symptoms are bubbling up.

They include Bible studies in bars, friends starting their own churches in houses, or congregations trying a smattering of everything —- music of the Middle Ages and the latest rock anthems, Saturday morning and Thursday night meetings. Pentecostals are adopting liturgy and Episcopalians are speaking in tongues.

“[The changes are] led by all those who wish to remain faithful, but feel something is not quite right in the church,” said Tickle,

This new movement, which she refers to as emerging or emergent Christianity, will have as big an impact as the Reformation, Tickle predicts.

How many churchgoers know about what she is talking about?

“It won’t be 10 percent right now,” she said. “But I would be floored if its not 20 percent next year. The restlessness now is almost palpable.”

The movement is loosely organized, and often quiet. It is made up of people who have gotten to know each other through word-of-mouth, on Internet sites or at conferences where writer-pastors such as Brian McLaren and Tony Jones speak.

The movement’s members are passionate and experimental, socially conscious and ecumenical, deeply devoted to early church disciplines, such a prayer, but they feel free to question and reinterpret long-held beliefs, [Steve Hayner, a professor of church growth at Columbia Theological Seminary in Decatur] said.

Troy Bronsink, a former Presbyterian pastor who leads a strand of the Atlanta movement, describes some involved as “refugees from ecclesiological abuse.”

Discussion groups and the participants’ relationships create a safe space for those willing to question the religion they grew up with and think and talk about new ways to live out their faith, he said.

Tickle said, “When somebody says they are relativists, I want to smack them upside their heads.”

One has to take belief seriously to question and reposition a faith so that it is meaningful in current culture, she said. And the critics should get used to these faithful who look back to the roots of the faith as well as lean into the future with it.

“Before it’s over, it’s going to be 60 percent of Christianity,” she predicted.

Next emergent cohort meeting is September 24th

The usual time: 7pm, September 24th
The usual location: High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan

We’ll be reviewing the book The Lost Letters of Pergamum, by Bruce W. Longenecker

Our next meeting on August 20

We’re changing things up a little and meeting a week earlier than we normally have the last few months. It will be Wednesday, August 20th, at 7pm, over at High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan.

We’ll be discussing the article “Crucified Lord or Conquering Saviour: Whose Story of Salvation” by Sylvia C. Keesmaat, as well as both the epistles of Philippians and Romans. So you’ll want to spend sometime reading (the article is short) and preparing. (But if for whatever reason you can’t read the above, come anyway. I’m sure you will still be able to participate.)

Interesting event coming up

I saw this in the weekly bulletin of St. Mary’s Episcopal Church, which I visited a couple of Sundays ago. This sounds like it would be interesting to go see:

Have you ever been confused or frustrated with the way Christians use the Bible to fight with each other? Tired of Christians using portions of the Bible to prove other Christians wrong? Then join us at the Open Book Store (ECCU) September 20, 10:00 am -1:30 pm. Author, Dean, & President of the Church Divinity School of the Pacific, Dr. Donn Morgan, Ph.D will address these issues, and more. Participants will have an opportunity to test out constructive ways to use the Bible and its very different teachings in parish and other contexts. Copies of his book Fighting with the Bible will be on sale. Register now by e-mail with name(s) and phone number to mnestler@episcopal-ut.org. Cost $15.00 per person, including lunch, payable at the door.

And that does appear to be a new Christian bookstore located in downtown, at the new the Episcopal Church Center of Utah, 75 South 200 East, Salt Lake City, UT. I haven’t checked that bookstore out yet to see what it’s made of, but I hope to soon.

Some additional information from their weekly bulletin:

The new diocesan bookstore, The Open Book, is now open! We carry a wide assortment of books and gifts for progressive Christians, including Bibles, the Book of Common Prayer, works in classical and contemporary spirituality, history and theology, and children’s books. We are happy to recommend books for special occasions or gifts. And, we are happy to place special orders and mail your purchase to you if you live outside the Salt Lake metro area. Come visit us. Our hours are 10 a.m. until 5 p.m. Monday through Thursday and 9 a.m. until noon on Fridays. We are located on the Commons at the Episcopal Church Center of Utah, 75 S. 200 E., in Salt Lake City. Contact either Jessica Hatch or Barbara Losse for information, questions or to place an order: 801-595-5362, or send an email to bookstore@episcopal-ut.org

Christian Unity

I had an interesting thing happen to me a few weeks ago that I thought I might share:
On Friday nights I play in the Christian softball league here in town. I have been playing in this league for as long as I have lived here (13 years). There are 16 teams in this league representing 14 different Christian churches in the valley. It has always been the custom for the two teams to form a circle and pray together after the post-game handshakes. For 13 years I have seen every team adhere to this custom - until this season. We have a church in the league this year with 2 teams entered and they refuse to pray with their opponents after the games. Recently, after playing 3 games this season against these guys I confronted them about not praying with us or any other teams in the league. I was told that they are not sure we are TRULY Christians and, since they take worship very seriously, they don’t want to pray with us, just in case.
Exclusiveness… superiority… arrogance…? I don’t know; these ARE attitudes that some Christians somehow extract from the gospel. They are all too eager to judge each other by their positions on controversial issues like evolution, stem cell research, abortion, gay rights, capital punishment, political party affiliation, etc., as well as theological stances. Like the guys from those softball teams, too many Christians jump to reckless assumptions about other Christians until they can run them through their “Christian standards” checklist to approve of them or not. And, almost always, the standards are based on arguable interpretations of Bible text or some distortion in its practical application. There is a disturbing pride that many Christians seem to derive when upholding their viewpoints, becoming vocal, even angry, with those who disagree. They forget that their salvation is a gift that they should not boast. Many of them have erroneously drawn the conclusion, from somewhere other than their Bibles, that anything less than THEIR church’s/denomination’s interpretation of certain sections of the Bible (particularly Genesis and Revelation) puts one in only a “maybe” relationship w/ God. There are many people with an education in science, philosophy, or social/behavioral sciences who are Believers but will not set foot in a church because they want to avoid legalist Christians like the plague. One’s relationship with God is its own reality and whatever anyone else thinks about it is, at its most basic level (between God and the individual), irrelevant. But there are larger implications for the universal church body.
To be sure, there ARE essential doctrines inherent to Christianity, without which it would cease to be Christianity. The duties of elders and ministers are to shepherd the flock and uphold the doctrine of the church. We DO have to be on guard against counterfeit christian organizations in the world. Meanwhile, it must be recognized that there are non-essential doctrines to our faith, also. For example, even though the majority of people in my congregation may adhere to a literalist view of creation, we agree that specifics on origins and specifics on eschatology are non-essentials for salvation or fellowship.
If it’s not hard enough for Christians to agree on what the essentials are, so many Christians are deeply embedded in an “either/or” rationale. In other words, they put issues into a dichotomy: either x is true, OR y is true, and then assume they are mutually exclusive. They don’t consider the possibility that x and y may BOTH be true... or false. Moreover, there may even be a z that is true! For example:
1) The Bible is God’s word, or The Bible is not God’s word.
2) Literal Bible interpretation is true, or Metaphorical Bible interpretation is true.
3) The Bible gives an account of origins, or Science gives an account of origins.
In philosophical lingo these are examples of a false dichotomy. In other words, you are trying to force your opponent into an extreme position because you offer only two possible choices. Does this sound familiar? Either “You believe the Bible literally,” or “You are calling God a liar.” Metaphysical materialists also use false dichotomy when arguing with theistic evolutionists. They are notorious for this. Examples:
1) “You believe your science textbook,” or “You believe your Bible.”
2) “You are an accomplished scientist,” or “You believe in God.”

The great thinkers of the church and early shapers of Christian doctrine - Paul, Augustine and Thomas Aquinas – probably roll over in their graves at the lack of critical thinking sometimes demonstrated in the church. For instance, I am sure Paul believed the literal 6 days of creation, Adam and Eve story, sin causing corporal death, etc. It is evident in Romans that he did and there is a rationale for it (receiving inspiration while living in a Jewish culture in a pre-scientific age). But if he were somehow to show up on the scene today and be exposed to the scientific data with which we now have access, I am confident his divinely inspired message would be more in a context of what we believe about the world today. He would be true to his strategy of being all things to all people to the glory of Christ. But here’s the point: Paul would deliver exactly the same SPIRITUAL message. Many Christians appear to be unable to make the distinction between content and method – the deeper message is the same whether it is written in a pre-scientific context or 21st century context. In addition, such legalistic Christians seem to be completely unaware that the doctrine they adhere to today (the Trinity, the divinity and humanity of Christ, baptism, etc.) was not all processed into systematic theology in the days of the writing of the NT. It took decades, even centuries, to address different points of theology AS THE NEED AROSE (heresies, persecution, reformation, counter-reformation). Today there IS a need for the church to address certain theological and political issues as they affect the life of the church as well as individual Christians. But this must be carried out by looking for the deeper message of the Scriptures as seen through a context of what we know about the world today. And it must be done without erroneously transforming political issues into theological ones.
Now, I have no idea exactly what kinds of heresies the “softball guys” are on the lookout for. But what struck me the most is that the strongest emotion I detected from them was: FEAR. Thankfully, I cannot comprehend what that is like – Fear in a God so harsh that an attempt at genuine fellowship with other brothers and sisters in Christ should be forsaken “just in case” their theological standards are not perfectly aligned. And, of course, they are CERTAIN their standards are God’s standards. Christians should be the most secure people on the planet! Yet these guys seem to be almost paralyzed with fear of … something!
What the Emergent Cohort in Salt Lake City has been for me is for Christians from different backgrounds to enjoy each others’ company and discuss topics without being judged or ridiculed – just sharing ideas, knowing and accepting from the start that it’s unavoidable to have differences in opinion, but still able to embrace a friendship that is rooted in Christ.

Our next meeting July 23rd

Since we don’t have any specific topic picked out for this meeting, how about we spend some time discussing just what we each think Emergent is.

Also, we had talked about following along with the upcoming Reclaiming Paul conference, discussing the reading material, and follow-up stuff generated after the conference. That begins in August, so you will want to start preparing now. Make sure you can get access to the books we’ll be discussing (here is the previous post with links).

A blog has been set up associated with the conference that you may want to check out, and here are a couple of YouTube videos discussing it:

Jesus in China

There has been a lot of reporting on the church in China the past couple of months. The cover page article in Christianity Today, May 2008, and as well the main theme of Christian History & Biography, Spring 2008, currently available on news stands in most local B&N and Borders. And I just found out that FRONTLINE/World, on PBS, this Tuesday at 8pm, will have a feature Jesus in China. With the Olympics coming up, and with all the focus on China, as well as China’s rapid economic growth, and the surprising growing affluence and influence of the church there, it will be interesting to watch developments there.

Our next meeting June 25th

We don’t have any specific topic set up, but I thought we might discuss theology, spiritual, and philosophical books… what we’re reading now, what we’ve read, our favorites, recommended, and what we want to read and why. So of course we will probably whined up talking about all sorts of things.

Also, I’ve decided to go back to school. I plan to audit a course at our local Salt Lake Theological Seminary, the class The Message of the Psalms: God’s Rule in a World of Trouble, I’ve already anteed up the class fees and ordered the books. [Unfortunately, my class was just cancelled] (Check out there summer course schedule for classes if you’re interested.)

Be prepared to go on a book buying apocalypse after this get together. :^)

The Hope That You Have

I had some more thoughts on hope and why I feel it may be more useful than beliefs.

Peter said:
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

I believe Peter was very specific with his choice of words. Notice he did not ask us to be prepared to give reasons for our beliefs.

One reason hope tends to be more useful is because it is not a matter of right or wrong. I could believe with my whole heart that something is true... then find out it isn't. How often has this happened to us?

Hope speaks to our desires and where our heart is going. I think scripture shows that God tends to focus on our hearts.

Hope allows me to fellowship. I just had a great walk and conversation with a good friend of mine. He is LDS and I am not. Many people find it difficult to fellowship with someone of a different faith. My friend and I do not have this problem and I think it is due to Hope. We have beliefs that are very different and we often candidly discuss them. However, above our beliefs we find that we share a common Hope - That God is a loving God who wants us to grow in Him. That Goodness will triumph. That this will all end in a way better than either of us can imagine.

Some upcoming plans

Emergent Village will be having their theological conversation event, Reclaiming Paul: The Apostle in the Emerging World, in late October. If any of us can go, great. But I know I can’t go, and I would still like to participate in some way. So we had discussed reading the books the conversation will be going over and doing some of our own conversing over them, and then participate in some of the blogging and the podcasts that will probably be periodically made available on Emergent Village after the conversation.

Here’s a possible itinerary we could do, following along with the reading material that goes with this theological conversation:

For our August meeting we can read and discuss the article “Crucified Lord or Conquering Saviour: Whose Story of Salvation” by Sylvia C. Keesmaat, and Philippians & Romans in the Net Bible Translation.

For September, we can discuss The Lost Letters of Pergamum, by Bruce W. Longenecker.

The conversation is set to start on the same day our get together is scheduled (fourth Wednesday), so we can discuss the book by one of the events main speakers, Reading Paul, by Michael Gorman.

What do you guys think? If this is a go then you’ll want to order the books now and have the book read before the meeting for that book so we can discuss.

Reminder

Our discussion get together is this Wednesday, 7pm, over at High Point Coffee, at 1735 West 7800 South, in West Jordan.

Also, I thought I’d mention that the emerging church and Brian McLaren (not the Salt Lake Emergent Cohort) were in today’s Religion/Ethics section of the Deseret News. It’s a reprint of an earlier AP interview with Brian McLaren that’s been circulating for a few weeks now. It’s good to see our local paper pick it up.

In the same section of the paper they also mention a film/presentation that will be showing down at the main library this Tuesday. The documentary film Conviction, at 7pm, Tuesday, free; one of the nuns in the film, Sister Jackie Hudson, who went to prison for her protest, will be speaking there and taking questions as well. I plan to go, so if anyone wants to join me.